LDS Mormon Doctrine Says You Can be Both Saved and Lost

[Rescued One]

Mormons think people earn the right to be born.

 

[He is the way]

Mormons think people earn the right to be born.

(New Testament | Jude 1:3 - 6)

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Know LOVE, Know God, no LOVE, no God.

You should put that on a bumper sticker...

 

[mmksparbud]

You should put that on a bumper sticker...

Actually---It was!

 

[Peter1000]

Your false Christ's supposed ability to save depends on what you have earned (which is actually nothing). There is no mercy.

“I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say”

D&C 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
Doctrine and Covenants 82


For all the literal-minded people out there, let me preface this whole article with the statement that the word “estate” as used here has nothing to do with property. I was preparing a lesson on part of the plan of salvation recently and realized I would be talking about the subject of what it means to keep our second estate, now that we have already kept our first estate. It was only then that I recognized that no one had ever defined for me what an estate was, or what it means to “keep” an estate. It seems reasonable to assume that if we had to keep one estate before we could earn the right to come here, and we have to keep this estate before we can become exalted, that perhaps we should know what it means to successfully “keep” an estate...

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
- Kelly Merrill
How to Keep Your Second Estate | Gospelstudy.us

“We are living eternal life, and our position hereafter will be the result of our lives here. Every man will be judged according to his works, and he will receive only that degree of glory that he has earned."
The Teachings of George Albert Smith, p.30, Conference Reports, April 1945, p. 139.


“Now, brethren and sisters, somebody said in this conference that the same laws apply, the same rules govern today, and it is just as necessary for us to keep the commandments of our Heavenly Father today as it was for any of the prophets of old or any of his faithful sons and daughters who have lived upon the earth, who have earned a right to a place in the celestial kingdom. We can’t gain our exaltation by the good lives of our neighbors, but we can profit by their good example, and we can improve ourselves.”
Eighth President George Albert Smith, Conference Reports, April 1948, pp.162-163

“There is only one objective so far as our Father’s work is concerned, and that is that in the end when we shall have finished our work here on earth, whether after a short space of time or a long, we too shall have overcome the world and have earned the right to that place called the Celestial Kingdom.”
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, pp.230-231


“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42

“It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings must be earned.”
(Thomas Monson, “An Invitation to Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1988, p.56).

It's sad that so many people think they can earn eternal life, particularly by worshiping false gods and obeying false prophets.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

You always make the mistake of using the word "earned". For the nth time, we cannot earn our way into heaven.

But we must be about our Fathers business, and whoever is not, they will not see eternal life.

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons think people earn the right to be born.

The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that if you kept not your first estate (in heaven), you would not have the opportunity to be born on this earth, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit. (your second estate)

 

[BigDaddy4]

Actually---It was!

I know. That's why I rolled my eyes !

I guess the poster has gone from random drive-by verse postings to bumper sticker theology as a debate tactic.

 

[Rescued One]

You always make the mistake of using the word "earned". For the nth time, we cannot earn our way into heaven.

But we must be about our Fathers business, and whoever is not, they will not see eternal life.

By heaven, I assume your definition is"the place where the Father and Christ dwell."

No, you can call it a mistake because you are a Mormon and Mormons disagree with past leaders. But in reality it was taught by past leaders. Your scriptures, manuals, you and and He is the Way still teach it. Pretending that non-Mormons don't know the meaning of the word "earn" doesn't change the meaning of the word!

We earn wages, we are freely given gifts.

Mormonism:

D&C 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I frequently provide proof of this. You frequently ignore it.

 

[Rescued One]

The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that if you kept not your first estate (in heaven), you would not have the opportunity to be born on this earth, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit. (your second estate)

I explained that. Everyone who is on earth, according to Mormonism, earned the right to come here.

 

[Rescued One]

“I testify that with unimaginable suffering and agony at an incalculable price, the Savior earned His right to be our Redeemer, our Intermediary, our Final Judge.”
Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” General Conference, Oct. 2006

The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness

 

[Rescued One]

"Know LOVE, Know God, no LOVE, no God."

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, copyright 1981, p. 395

LDS Young Women Manual 2, Lesson 29, p. 108

 

[He is the way]

By heaven, I assume your definition is"the place where the Father and Christ dwell."

No, you can call it a mistake because you are a Mormon and Mormons disagree with past leaders. But in reality it was taught by past leaders. Your scriptures, manuals, you and and He is the Way still teach it. Pretending that non-Mormons don't know the meaning of the word "earn" doesn't change the meaning of the word!

We earn wages, we are freely given gifts.

Mormonism:

D&C 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I frequently provide proof of this. You frequently ignore it.

I think that many people need to go back to reading the Bible and get a better understanding of the gift of the atonement. They don't seem to know that Jesus Christ is the judge and He will decide who He is going to give His gift to. He has made it clear who will be worthy of the atonement:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[Rescued One]

All Christians obey Him by God's grace and have the imputed righteousness of Christ. Mormons who read the Doctrine and Covenants and student manuals learn that they have to keep all the commandments of Mormonism.

 

[Rescued One]

 

[He is the way]

All Christians obey Him by God's grace and have the imputed righteousness of Christ. Mormons who read the Doctrine and Covenants and student manuals learn that they have to keep all the commandments of Mormonism.

Everyone MUST keep the commandments of LOVE if they want salvation:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[He is the way]

View attachment 268622

(New Testament | Romans 6:23)

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Peter1000]

All Christians obey Him by God's grace and have the imputed righteousness of Christ. Mormons who read the Doctrine and Covenants and student manuals learn that they have to keep all the commandments of Mormonism.

That is: keep all the commandments of Jesus Christ, or live the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)

 

[Peter1000]

This is way more confusing.

The bible also says that you can be saved and lost. See
John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Every branch "in Jesus" that beareth not fruit, God will taketh away.

IOW, If you are in Jesus it means that you are saved. If you who are "in Jesus" do not produce fruit, God will take you away and your salvation is lost, unless you repent and start accessing the vine and Jesus starts giving you grace through the vine to be like him.

 

[Rescued One]

The bible also says that you can be saved and lost. See
John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Every branch "in Jesus" that beareth not fruit, God will taketh away.

IOW, If you are in Jesus it means that you are saved. If you who are "in Jesus" do not produce fruit, God will take you away and your salvation is lost, unless you repent and start accessing the vine and Jesus starts giving you grace through the vine to be like him.

If eternal life were not a gift, everyone would forever be lost. That is why God gives us the gift of eternal.

God isn't stupid. If He saves someone He makes sure they will be conformed to the image of Christ. That is an undeserved blessing. It is not a forced punishment. We don't start "accessing the Vine." We are grafted in by God. He gives us to the Savior. Mormons think they can access the Vine.

Jesus is the Vine, the true Vine; He is sometimes referred to as an olive tree.

.........................Paul brought the good news to the Gentiles, who in turn became Abraham’s spiritual seed by faith and heirs of the promises to Abraham and his seed (Galatians 3—4). This is what Paul meant in Romans 11 by the Gentiles being “grafted” into the “olive tree” and nourished by the “root” (the promises to Abraham). The tree thus signifies the collective people of God; the “wild branches” grafted in are Gentile believers; the “natural branches” that are cut off are the Jews in unbelief. Jewish believers remain in the tree but are joined with Gentiles and “made” into a “new body,” the Church (Ephesians 2:11–22).

Paul anticipated a question that would surely arise among his Gentile readers: “I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall?” (Romans 11:1)—Gentile believers would be tempted to dismiss Israel because it appeared they would never recover. Even today, there are those who advocate supersessionism or replacement theology, which holds that the Church has completely replaced Israel and will inherit the promises to be fulfilled only in a spiritual sense. In other words, according to this view, ethnic Israel is forever excluded from the promises—the Jews will not literally inherit the Promised Land. What then would happen to Israel? What about the Old Testament prophecies that Israel as a nation would repent and be re-gathered to the land in the last days as a permanent possession (Deuteronomy 30:1–10)?

Romans 11 thus conclusively shows Gentile believers that God is not yet “done” with Israel, who has only temporarily lost the privilege of representing God as His people. Since “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable” (11:29), “all Israel will be saved” in order to fulfill God’s covenant with ethnic Israel (11:25–28), including the promise of land inheritance (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

While the “natural branches” were cut off because Israel failed, God’s purposes are not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham and his seed. This brings full circle God’s larger redemptive plan (Romans 11:30–36) for both Jews and Gentiles as distinct populations within the people of God in the Davidic (or Millennial) Kingdom.
What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place? | GotQuestions.org


The reason Mormons teach that people must access Jesus or the Vine or the atonement is because of Joseph Smith's distorted teaching:

Doctrine and Covenants 130

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 130

God, Law of (according to Joseph Smith):

• punishment of the law at the great and last day, 2 Ne. 2:26.
• he has given a law; and where there is no law given, 2 Ne. 9:25.
• wo unto him that has the law given, 2 Ne. 9:27.
• law which was temporal, D&C 29:34.
• by the prayer of your faith ye shall receive my law, D&C 41:3.
• hearken and hear and obey the law which I shall give, D&C 42:2.
• blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law, D&C 130:21.
• have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law, D&C 132:5.
• except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory, D&C 132:21.
• enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved, D&C 132:32.

God, Law of

Each person must agree that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and obey the laws that he claimed came from God.

 

[Rescued One]

The bible also says that you can be saved and lost. See
John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Every branch "in Jesus" that beareth not fruit, God will taketh away.

IOW, If you are in Jesus it means that you are saved. If you who are "in Jesus" do not produce fruit, God will take you away and your salvation is lost, unless you repent and start accessing the vine and Jesus starts giving you grace through the vine to be like him.

Saved and Lost at the same time for some humans according to Mormonism:

Mormonism separates salvation into two different kinds: salvation from physical death and salvation from spiritual death. In the LDS view, God will resurrect all people to immortality regardless of how they live or whether they believe. This salvation from physical death is thus unconditional—not dependent on either faith or works. On the other hand, salvation from spiritual death, they say, requires both faith and good works—including works only Mormons can do. One must accept the Atonement, repent of one’s sins, be baptized (in the LDS Church), receive the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands by a man with the Mormon priesthood), and obey God’s commandments (which includes LDS rituals, notably getting married “for eternity” in a Mormon temple, and a long list of other obligations). Only people who do all these things can live in heaven with Heavenly Father and Mother and continue progressing toward the goal of becoming gods. In this sense, salvation is conditional—dependent on faith and the works required in the Mormon religion.
The Mormon View of Salvation

Mormonism:
Those spirits who earned the right to come to earth to obtain physical bodies might be sent to outer darkness at the Judgment. They have not been saved from spiritual death.