Is Calvinism Just?

[Call me Nic]

You believe because God saved you. He doesn't save anyone because they choose to believe.

John 3:18 says you're wrong. John 5:24 says you're wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... and so it seems people perish every day .....

 

[renniks]

In Calvinism you are spiritually dead and thinkt the gospel is foolishness. From out of this state God resurrects your dead spirit in the new birth so you can grasp spiritual things. Only then can you believe the gospel and long for holiness.

I don't care what Calvinism says... I care what the Bible says. And what it says is belief comes from hearing the gospel. Not God zapping you with faith. Scripture indicates you can choose to be good soil, or bad.

 

[Dave L]

Faith is also shown as a choice to be made in scripture when Thomas refused to believe unless Christ showed himself to him personally.

John 20:25 says, "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Although Thomas' faith was dependent upon him physically seeing the risen Lord, nonetheless he made the statement and decision to not believe until Christ had appeared to him.

But Jesus removed himself from those who believed based on seeing the miracles. And said to the richman even if someone returned from the dead his kin would not believe if they didn't already believe Moses. What's the solution?

 

[Dave L]

I don't care what Calvinism says... I care what the Bible says. And what it says is belief comes from hearing the gospel. Not God zapping you with faith. Scripture indicates you can choose to be good soil, or bad.

Calvinism says what the bible says.

 

[Dave L]

John 3:18 says you're wrong. John 5:24 says you're wrong.

Nowhere do we choose Christ. He chooses us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you save yourself by meeting conditions = works.

Hate to break it to you but there are many conditions to receiving salvation.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians 1:21-23

“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:11-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:10-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Dave L]

Hate to break it to you but there are many conditions to receiving salvation.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians 1:21-23

“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:11-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:10-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This is what I'm talking about. Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Not whoever chooses to believe.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes or not to what question ?
The "page" is in google books, and I can read a little of it but cannot copy it to quote it.

I’m sorry you did answer it I misread your post.

 

[Call me Nic]

Nowhere do we choose Christ. He chooses us.

Christ says at the very end of the Bible in Revelation 22:17 in the latter part of the verse, "... And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." This is clearly an open invitation to receive Christ by whomever. Not whosoever God wills, but whosoever will.

 

[Albion]

So then God elects everyone who will choose to repent and endure to the end?

I'll put it another way. Calvinism does not teach that God is unjust or that He chooses His elect at random or for no reason.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you save yourself by meeting conditions = works.

I’m sorry, are you saying that we don’t have to believe to receive salvation?

 

[Dave L]

Christ says at the very end of the Bible in Revelation 22:17 in the latter part of the verse, "... And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." This is clearly an open invitation to receive Christ by whoever will. Not whoever God wills, but whoever will.

Hint; these are already saved. They believe or they would not accept the offer.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'll put it another way. Calvinism does not teach that God is unjust or that He chooses His elect at random or for no reason.

Was that a yes or a no?

 

[Dave L]

I’m sorry, are you saying that we don’t have to believe to receive salvation?

Do you choose to believe you are sitting in a chair? If you must choose to believe it is because you don't believe. And you are trying to force the flesh to believe.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is what I'm talking about. Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Not whoever chooses to believe.

That’s because it’s not the choice that saves it’s the continuous belief that saves. That’s why He says believe because it’s intended to be presently and continuously. Didn’t you just quote Paul & Silas’ response to the jailer just a few posts back? Was that not the perfect example of choosing to believe?

 

[Dave L]

That’s because it’s not the choice that saves it’s the continuous belief that saves. That’s why He says believe because it’s intended to be presently and continuously. Didn’t you just quote Paul & Silas’ response to the jailer just a few posts back? Was that not the perfect example of choosing to believe?

=====works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you choose to believe you are sitting in a chair? If you must choose to believe it is because you don't believe. And you are trying to force the flesh to believe.

Did you not just quote Paul & Silas’ response to the jailer?

 

[Dave L]

Did you not just quote Paul & Silas’ response to the jailer?

Paul assured him if he believes (without choosing to in the flesh) he will be one of the lucky ones.

 

[Albion]

So then God elects everyone who will choose to repent and endure to the end?

Was that a yes or a no?

I see. You've switched to a different issue.

The answer to your question here is "yes." Bear in mind that when we say "Calvinist," that's a fairly broad term and there are people of different slants on this subject who all call themselves Calvinist.