None of These Diseases: I am the Lord who heals you.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Matthew 4:17 tells me that he urged the Jews to:

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.

Yes, good (possibly! still to be clarified) .

And when they walked away from Him (Jews and even His own disciples) did He try to convince them not to ? No.

He even asked the Apostles "will you also leave Me ?"

Each and every time, Jesus told the Truth, as Directed by His Father.
He was not 'influenced' by the temptation to sin, to follow feelings or emotions, to 'hope' to save more than the Father gave Him. He accepted all that the Father gave Him, and perfectly taught them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have already pointed about the scripture there. You can go ahead and read it.

If you disagree with my belief on what the Gospel of John is for, you are free to do so.

He said Himself - the sign of Jonah WAS THE ONLY SIGN they would be given.
Do you deny this? (yes or no, just as you requested)

 

[Guojing]

He said Himself - the sign of Jonah WAS THE ONLY SIGN they would be given.
Do you deny this? (yes or no, just as you requested)

He did say that, yes, in that passage. Why are you taking one verse and making it such a big deal?

So help me understand what John meant in John 20:30-31. Did he contradict what Jesus was saying then?

 

[Guojing]

Yes, good (possibly! still to be clarified) .

And when they walked away from Him (Jews and even His own disciples) did He try to convince them not to ? No.

He even asked the Apostles "will you also leave Me ?"

Each and every time, Jesus told the Truth, as Directed by His Father.
He was not 'influenced' by the temptation to sin, to follow feelings or emotions, to 'hope' to save more than the Father gave Him. He accepted all that the Father gave Him, and perfectly taught them.

So he was trying to convince the Jews of SOMETHING.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So he was trying to convince the Jews of SOMETHING.

Not necessarily.
When one of HIS OWN disciples asked Jesus how many people would be saved in the town they were about to enter,
Jesus told him "it is none of your business" (how many were to be saved)
or "that is none of your concern"
just go and do what the Father has told you to do.
i.e. speak as the Father says to, and do what the Father says to,
NOT trying to convince anyone , but leaving that up to the Father.
Same for Jesus, as He obeyed the Father.

(same for us permanent disciples also - which I am learning woefully slowly)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He did say that, yes, in that passage. Why are you taking one verse and making it such a big deal?

So help me understand what John meant in John 20:30-31. Did he contradict what Jesus was saying then?

Print it out again. I will answer.

 

[Guojing]

Print it out again. I will answer.

30 Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

30 Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Good. "in the presence of the disciples" . This does not at all contradict what Jesus said to the other Jews, that there would be only one sign for those other Jews who were seeking a sign.

Remember likewise, Jesus 'hid' the truth from the Jewish leaders and some other Jews - by speaking in Parables so that they would not see, and hearing they would NOT understand.

TO THE DISCIPLES, Jesus explained the Parables IN PRIVATE. Not to the others. Jesus TOLD THEM WHY.
Note that even the disciples of Jesus, did not understand (He even chastised them for this) , but He went on and EXPLAINED to the disciples, and NOT to the other Jews.

Jesus did exactly as the Father directed Him to do. No more, no less.
Everything "of the Father", not "of Himself"... "of Himself, He did nothing" ...

 

[Guojing]

Good. "in the presence of the disciples" . This does not at all contradict what Jesus said to the other Jews, that there would be only one sign for those other Jews who were seeking a sign.

Remember likewise, Jesus 'hid' the truth from the Jewish leaders and some other Jews - by speaking in Parables so that they would not see, and hearing they would NOT understand.

TO THE DISCIPLES, Jesus explained the Parables IN PRIVATE. Not to the others. Jesus TOLD THEM WHY.
Note that even the disciples of Jesus, did not understand (He even chastised them for this) , but He went on and EXPLAINED to the disciples, and NOT to the other Jews.

Jesus did exactly as the Father directed Him to do. No more, no less.
Everything "of the Father", not "of Himself"... "of Himself, He did nothing" ...

You are not understanding the Gospel of John in context.

There were 8 signs that were recorded in John and every sign was done publicly. The feeding of the 5000 is the prime example of him showing the Jews that he was their bread of life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are not understanding the Gospel of John in context.

There were 8 signs that were recorded in John and every sign was done publicly. The feeding of the 5000 is the prime example of him showing the Jews that he was their bread of life.

In context, what did Jesus say about the crowd who followed Him because of the food He provided ?

 

[Guojing]

In context, what did Jesus say about the crowd who followed Him because of the food He provided ?

Did Jesus say anything? I don't recall, you wanna tell me?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did Jesus say anything? I don't recall, you wanna tell me?

Yes, but not from memory. I must now go look it up again.... (gladly)...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

John 6: "14 When the people saw the miracle he had performed, they said, “This has to be ‘the prophet’ who is supposed to come into the world.” 15 Yeshua knew that they were on the point of coming and seizing him, in order to make him king; so he went back to the hills again. This time he went by himself."
=======================
(this came up first as I was searching , and seems somewhat appropriate.)
(I still have to go search for what I was looking for)

Note that He does not try to convince the people of His True Identity or His True Kingship ....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did Jesus say anything? I don't recall, you wanna tell me?

"25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?” 26 Yeshua answered, “Yes, indeed! I tell you, you’re not looking for me because you saw miraculous signs, but because you ate the bread and had all you wanted! "


This is part of what I was looking for.... Yahuweh Willing I'll be able tomorrow to find the remainder sometime during the day... (or later)...

 

[Guojing]

John 6: "14 When the people saw the miracle he had performed, they said, “This has to be ‘the prophet’ who is supposed to come into the world.” 15 Yeshua knew that they were on the point of coming and seizing him, in order to make him king; so he went back to the hills again. This time he went by himself."
=======================
(this came up first as I was searching , and seems somewhat appropriate.)
(I still have to go search for what I was looking for)

Note that He does not try to convince the people of His True Identity or His True Kingship ....

If you hold that belief that Jesus was not trying to persuade the Jews he is their promised Messiah, then I understand that you would interpret the Gospel of John differently from me.

Okay, we can agree to disagree here. This thread has been derailed long enough already. Let's get back to the OP on whether is there healing for today.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Okay. Jesus says there is healing for today.

 

[Guojing]

Okay. Jesus says there is healing for today.

So anyone with eyes can obviously tell that the healings taking place today, is a far cry from the healings that took place in Jesus's time.

I agree with what Strong in Him is trying to say here.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
i agree with Jeff here. Jesus IS our HEALER. He didn't require a "gift" of healing. He was/is THE HEALER Himself, God incarnate, Guojing.

By the way, a late welcome to CF to you.

God bless you.

I am not saying that, I am saying he had the sign gift of healing in order to verify his identity to the Jews.

There are plenty of Scripture verses stating that the Jews always needed a sign in order to believe. I am sure you are aware of them?

Needing a "sign" does not equate that Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living, was "equipped" (given) the "gift" of healing. He IS God Himself, THE HEALER, Creator God Himself. WHO would've "equipped" Him ("given" Him) the "gift" of "healing"? Did He "lack" anything? Does GOD "lack" anything? Does God "need" anything? If so, "who" would "grant Him" this "gift"?

 

[Guojing]

Needing a "sign" does not equate that Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living, was "equipped" (given) the "gift" of healing. He IS God Himself, THE HEALER, Creator God Himself. WHO would've "equipped" Him ("given" Him) the "gift" of "healing"? Did He "lack" anything? Does GOD "lack" anything? Does God "need" anything? If so, "who" would "grant Him" this "gift"?

Again, I did not say that. I agree with you. Jesus was always the Son of God, he was 100% God and Man.

But for the Jews, they needed signs to believe in that message. Are you disagreeing with this point of mine?

As a reinforcement of that point, do you believe that the 2 witnesses will be performing many signs and wonders for the Jews during the Great Tribulation, as what Revelations 11:6 indicated?

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Needing a "sign" does not equate that Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living, was "equipped" (given) the "gift" of healing. He IS God Himself, THE HEALER, Creator God Himself. WHO would've "equipped" Him ("given" Him) the "gift" of "healing"? Did He "lack" anything? Does GOD "lack" anything? Does God "need" anything? If so, "who" would "grant Him" this "gift"?

Again, I did not say that. I agree with you. Jesus was always the Son of God, he was 100% God and Man.

But for the Jews, they needed signs to believe in that message. Are you disagreeing with this point of mine?

As a reinforcement of that point, do you believe that the 2 witnesses will be performing many signs and wonders for the Jews during the Great Tribulation, as what Revelations 11:6 indicated?

The key word here is "gift". It's a crucial word, because it defines something "given" to someone because they "lack". It may seem inconsequential, but it is not. If Jesus was "gifted" with something it means that He is the equivalent of "us", who "lack", and that is why we are "given" something because we "need" it. Otherwise we would not "need" it.

Jesus Christ, The "Healer" does not need a "gift" of healing, "given" to Him. He IS THE HEALER.

If He WERE "needy" as we are, He would need a Savior as well.