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Is there a denomination that accepts theistic evolution/old earth?

Jamdoc

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You didn't read them so, I'll just post them here I guess then.

Cain was more than likely banished to the "land of fugitiveness" by himself, if God would have sent him away with anyone, I think it would mention that, don't you...? It does not say "Cain and his wife (or his "theoretical" sister)", or "Cain and his family", just Cain... and that He "knew his wife" is just an OT way of saying he had sex with his wife and had a son...

More than likely he took his wife from that land that none of the "theoretical, supposed other", or "theoretical other supposed brothers and sisters", that the Bible makes absolutely no mention of, etc, except Seth and his (their) children long after that, or after Seth, and definitely after Cain and Abel, and Able was banished, etc... Anyway, none of them, even if Cain had had them (brothers and sisters) even before he was banished, would have even been in or gone to that land (yet) with Him, or would have been in that land at that time (yet) with him (Cain), etc...

So, He (Cain) was more than likely banished alone, and before he had any other brothers or sisters, let alone that went with him, etc, meaning he more then likely took or got his wife from "where now again"...? Or from who's "stock" or who's children again...? If it was not one of his siblings that was banished with him again...? Again, etc...?

We don't know for sure, but it does allow for the possibility of another race possibly...?

And that's all I'm saying...

The Bible does not mention that he had any other brothers or sisters before he was banished, let alone that went with him, etc... It only does mention Adam and Eve having other children after Seth, but that was before Cain and Abel and before Cain was banished or sent away, etc... But makes no mention of any "before that", so...?

It's just a "possibility" is all I'm saying...

God Bless!


@BobRyan said this to me after that:

1. I think it did when it mentions his wife having a child by him after he left.
2. The text says nothing at all about the "land of forgetfulness".
3. The Bible says that Adam had other children but does not give the order in which they were born other than the fact that Cain, Able were first and after the death of Able Seth was the first son.


Then I said:

1. The Bible makes no mention of Adam and Eve having any other children during the time of Cain and Abel, it only does after that, and after Seth, and after Cain was already banished or gone...

2. The land of Nod, is the land of the fugitives, or fugitiveness...

3. Correct, "after" the death of Abel, and "after" Cain was already sent away, and only "after that" did Adam and Eve have "other children", not before (more than likely) (or at least the Bible does not say or does not mention if they did, or that they did "before that" anyway) (and I think it would as it does mention it "afterwards", etc)...

Anyway, just something to consider, OK...?

God Bless!


But there are so many points to argue with you that I don't even know where to begin so...?

If you knew any kind of truth at all, you'd know that the earth is much older than just 6,000 years old, but "whatever" man...

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt I guess...

I also encouraged some to check out these posts as well, not that you even probably will, etc...

Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

And, your need to be right, when you are clearly wrong, just shows your arrogance (and ignorance as well) also, etc... And is very off-putting to me, etc...

It is people like you that are the problem with Christianity, and is why it will probably die, etc...

Your the one(s) being part of the problem and not part of the solution...

And the fact that your calling it "sound doctrine" is all to laughable to me...

God Bless!

The only way that Cain's wife could not be a daughter of Adam, is if the creation of man and woman in Genesis 1 is different from the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2. I don't find it likely, because even in genetics there is evidence of what they call the Mitochondrial Eve. Every single human on this planet traces their matriarchal lineage to her (the mitochondria have a different DNA sequence than our own, and they come from the egg cell, so it's traced by matriarchal lineage rather than patriarchal).
 
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BobRyan

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faith in evolutionism allows some parts of the Word of God to be accepted "as reliable" while other parts no matter how obvious are declared "uncertain" if belief in evolutionism does not fit with it

Some points are reliable, some words are uncertain.
 
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Neogaia777

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The only way that Cain's wife could not be a daughter of Adam, is if the creation of man and woman in Genesis 1 is different from the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2. I don't find it likely, because even in genetics there is evidence of what they call the Mitochondrial Eve. Every single human on this planet traces their matriarchal lineage to her (the mitochondria have a different DNA sequence than our own, and they come from the egg cell, so it's traced by matriarchal lineage rather than patriarchal).
Genesis 1 to 2:4 is a summary of an entire creation, from beginning to end, while 2:5 and "on" is all about the sixth day that we are still in... Or that's the "working theory" so far anyway...

See here for more info: Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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Too right. God could have spoken his word into our memory complete 100% in a language we could understand and with no need for interpretation, every single one of us. But he chose to have the book pieced together over centuries with inspired mortal men writing it down ..
But big point is, God can do anything, but has CHOSEN to do some things in certain ways for reasons only He knows.

Indeed that is THE point. God's Word was not written to conform to Darwinism and Moses was not a Darwinist. Jamming Gods word into Darwinism is not exegesis - it is eisegesis.'

"compare" the Gen 2:1-4 statement of days to... I started out comparing it to legal code in Ex 20:11 and continue to compare compare it to Ex 20:11
"SIX days you shall labor" Ex 20:9
"for in SIX days the LORD made..."

Even the Hebrew and OT scholars in all world class universities freely admit that the account for origins in Genesis 1-2 and Ex 20:11 is nothing remotely compatible with evolution's own doctrine on origins. they are as far apart as day and night.

Ex 20 "six days you shall labor...for in six days the LORD made" is so obviously "not" the evolutionism that is so popular today that it goes without saying.

Gen 2:
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Ex 20: "six days you shall labor..."
Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Notice what the top scholars in Hebrew and OT studies are saying in all the world class universities about the basic most obvious features of "the text" of Genesis.

=============================================
Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:


‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that
--the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:

(a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience

(b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story

(c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark.

Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know."

=====================================

Those guys get "the basics" about "interpretation" and "translation" and "the kind of writing that it is" - stating that this aspect of the discussion is sooooo incredibly obvious and basic that even the agnostic/atheist/lib/left scholars see that one point clearly.

============



It is, like a lot of Genesis, an omission, meaning we have to fill in the blanks ourselves.

When you have blatantly obvious details in the Bible so clear that the Hebrew and OT scholars in all world class universities - plus all bible-believing Christians (those not inclined to toss out the Bible whenever evolutionism demands it) can see the point clearly.. we call that "the obvious part".
 
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BobRyan

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Baloney. God could have done it all in a nanosecond. We don't believe that He did. Why? .

Because the Bible says that is not how He did it - and the Bible is the Word of God

"How" as in the timeline not 'How' as in infinite God breaks down his creative power into tiny insert-in-a-lab-experiment segments. (Obviously)

Did the bible say how He did it? Because I'm seeing no detail into creation here Genesis 1:20-21

I on the other hand see the detail of
1. How long a period of time it takes according to the time-boxed chronological sequence found in Genesis chapter 1.
2. What creation activity took place on each day, Light, Atmosphere, Dry Land, Plants, Sun and moon, Fish, Man and land animals. And the diet given to mankind and land animals.

Let's break this down.

We have the time span.
We have what is created in each day of the time boxed chronological sequence
We have two lights created.
We have two humans created - male and female
We have the diet given to mankind and to animals.
 
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charsan

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As far as the OP I could not find anything about Creation or not in my Church, I will have to ask my Priest. For me I believe as in the Bible. That might make me a rube and/or unintelligent idiot to some but I do not care this is what I believe.
 
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FaithT

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@Albion is correct - most denominations accept Old Earth Theistic Evolutionism. I will list some of them to give you an example of the scope we are dealing with:

- Anglicanism (all provinces, including the Anglican Church in Australia, even the extremely conservative Archdiocese of Sydney, the Anglican Church in North America, the Episcopal Church USA, the Church of England, the Church of Ireland, the Church in Wales, the Scottish Episcopalian Church, the Anglican Church of Ghana, the Anglican Church of South Africa, the Anglican Church of Tanzania, the Mar Thoma Syrian Church (which is in India, not Syria), the Church of South India, the Church of North India, the Church of Pakistan, the Anglican Province of Egypt, the Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church of New Zealand / Aotearoa, and many others).
- The American Baptist Convention
- The Assyrian Church of the East
- The Ancient Church of the East
- The Christian Church / Disciples of Christ
- The CCCC (Conservative Congregational Christian Conference; my denomination!)
- The Eastern Orthodox Communion (all members, including the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, the Orthodox Church in America, the Antiochian Orthodox, the Ukrainian Orthodox, the Albanian Orthodox, the Latvian Orthodox, the Estonian Orthodox, the American Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Diocese, and some smaller Orthodox churches that do not have their own parishes in the US such as the Polish Orthodox, the Czech and Slovakian Orthodox, the Macedonian Orthodox, the Finnish Orthodox, the Japanese Orthodox, the Cypriot Orthodox, and the Orthodox churches of Alexandria and All Africa, Jerusalem, Sinai, Moldova, Bessarabia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and generally speaking, the Old Calendarists and Russian Old Rite Orthodox / Old Believers, who are in the US)
- The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
- The Evangelical United Brethren
- The Evangelical Lutheran Synod
- The Evangelical Covenant Order (of Presbyterians, disgruntled former PCUSA)
- The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (mostly)
- The Moravian Church
- The North American Lutheran Church (ex-ELCA)
- The Oriental Orthodox Communion (Armenian Apostolic, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, Indian Orthodox/Malankara Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox)
- The Orthodox Presbyterian Church and The Presbyterian Church in America (in some parishes; your mileage will vary I think)
- The Presbyterian Church, USA
- The Reformed Church in America
- The Roman Catholic Church (including all Sui Juris Eastern Catholic churches such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholics, the Ruthenian Greek Catholics, of which Andy Warhol was a member, the Melkites, the Maronites, the Chaldeans, et cetera)
- The Southern Baptist Church (some congregations, it could be hit or miss)
- The Lutheran Church, Wisconsin Synod (same as above)
- The United Church of Christ
- The United Methodist Church

The Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Synod, and the Southern Baptist Church are congregational, but I haven’t heard of any of their congregations being especially fierce about this issue. I attended a Missouri Synod church for a while and never heard this mentioned; later I attended an ELCA parish. and this being before the recent leftward shift in that denomination, the content of the sermons was pretty much identical, as was the music (lovely in both cases). In the case of the SBC, the Presbyterian Church in America, and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, its probably a good idea to just visit their website before attending; if it does not include any anti-evolution tracts or links to Answers In Genesis, you should be fine. You can also always ask.

There are several smaller denominations which I have not listed (but to be fair, the CCCC and the Moravians are pretty small, I just happen to like them), which should also be fine. I don’t know anything about Pentecostal or Charismatic churches, so I can’t help you there. I also don’t know anything about the Calvary Chapel, the Anabaptists, the Seventh Day Adventists or the more evangelical Quakers.

Also I would assume many non-denominational evangelical churches are not into the creationism debates.

I personally am a theistic evolutionist, because I prefer to use Alexandrian-style allegorical and typological-prophetic exegesis of the Old Testament to the literal-historical method of the School of Antioch, as did Cyril of Alexandria, Origen, Athanasius (who defended the doctrine of the Trinity and saved Christianity from the counterfeit Arian cult the Roman Emperors tried to replace it with in the fourth century), and Cyril (who preserved Christianity again, this time from Nestorius and his teaching that the man Jesus and the Word of God were separate, united in a personal union or a union of will), and so using this allegorical form of exegesis, I believe the Book of Genesis is an allegorical account of creation, and my view is strengthened by the fact that if we interpret all accounts of creation in every religion allegorically, the only one which corresponds to known science is the Christian account.

But at the same time, some members of my flock are creationists, and I fully respect the creationist perspective. And if asked about how the universe came to be, my answer is probably the same as theirs, “God created it from nothing.” The only disagreement is over how He created it. Many extremely pious Christian pastors and theologians who I deeply respect are also creationists, and I cannot fault someone for using the Historical-Literal form of interpretation associated with the School of Antioch (indeed, the orthodox interpretation of the Old Testament shared by most Christian churches is based on a mix or synthesis of historical-critical interpretation, of the kind favored by John Chrysostom and Theodore of Mopsuestia, and Alexandrian allegorical-typological-prophetic interpretation, favored by Origen, Athanasius, Cyril and others.

The important part of the Bible is the Gospel message, which we get from the entirety of the books in it; the Good News that we can, thanks to the atoning sacrifice of our Savior, and his victory over death on the Cross, receive the blessing of everlasting life if we believe in Him.


The LCMS teaches, or at least has the position of a young earth and no evolution. See my first post here earlier today on the LutheranLCMS board titled Evolution and a You g Earth
 
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Jamdoc

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Because the Bible says that is not how He did it - and the Bible is the Word of God

"How" as in the timeline not 'How' as in infinite God breaks down his creative power into tiny insert-in-a-lab-experiment segments. (Obviously)



I on the other hand see the detail of
1. How long a period of time it takes according to the time-boxed chronological sequence found in Genesis chapter 1.
2. What creation activity took place on each day, Light, Atmosphere, Dry Land, Plants, Sun and moon, Fish, Man and land animals. And the diet given to mankind and land animals.

Let's break this down.

We have the time span.
We have what is created in each day of the time boxed chronological sequence
We have two lights created.
We have two humans created - male and female
We have the diet given to mankind and to animals.
There was a lot omitted particularly the specific process of how those whales were created. There's just the words "He created" the process is left open because there is separate action between speaking and creating. What was revealed to Moses was the information needed for Moses' purpose and for the purpose of the Jews, for Moses to spread the ten commandments and show sign of the covenant God made with them. The exact biology of a whale was not necessary to explain. However if your purpose is a veterinarian, you're going to need to understand how an animal's biology works so that you can properly take care of them when they are sick or injured. Had Moses been a veterinarian and God really wanted to reveal to him all the details of an animal's biology so that he'd be properly prepared for that purpose, there'd be a lot more detail in the books Moses wrote, but they'd be about animal biology rather than the laws of God. The animal biology not being in the books Moses wrote does not mean they were not created with that biology, just that it wasn't important for God to go into detail with Moses about it.
It might be moot to God entirely because this world and its biology and its natural laws, are kind of a wash destined to be destroyed and remade and the next world sounds purely supernatural, not operating on any natural laws at all. But if we're to understand the world we live in, which does act through natural laws, we need to study it, and study what lives on it, and understand how they work.
 
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His student

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You are really REALLY bent up on the word evolution because you have a prejudice against the word itself. You immediately jump to a darwinist view of things happening on their own.
Would you prefer it if I said genetic engineering? That God created things using Genetic engineering, genetically modifying organisms from one species to another? Because that's what I believe rather than magic, and rather than descent with modification happening completely on its own. I believe God used scientific principles in creation, considering He made all the natural laws the universe operates on that have no need of existing in a world created purely by supernatural means. The NEW Heaven and NEW Earth, those sound supernatural, they will no longer need natural laws. Man didn't create science, God did, and we just discover it.
young earthers condemn anyone that doesn't believe the same as they do.
Some perhaps. But certainly not me.

I have no trouble with the idea of an old universe and or an old earth. I don't agree with that thinking. But I certainly don't take exception to it or call it heresy.

I have no trouble with the concept of either evolution or genetically engineered modifications. I see no reason to subscribe to it and I don't. But I don't consider and call those who do subscribe to those things heretics or any other derogatory term.

So long as we are talking about the animal and plant kingdom excluding mankind.

Where I draw the line and call it things like liberalism and even perhaps heresy is when we are talking about the creation of mankind, the fall of mankind, and the redemption of mankind.

God is very specific when it comes to the first man's creation and that of his mate, God is very specific about how physical death and decay came into the earth through the curse He placed on that first man. God is also very specific when it comes to tying the overcoming work of the last Adam to the failure of that first Adam.

God's scripture narrative leaves absolutely no room for evolution of any kind, genetic engineering or any progression from one species, to another leading to man.

I really couldn't care less about your view of genetics, old earth, or anything else that those who compromise the plain teaching of the Word of God to line up with the teaching of those of this world subscribe to.

But it is my experience that one liberal step always leads to another.

I want no part in that slide toward probable heresy.
 
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His student

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I'm providing as much "food" as I possibly can to a generation that is dying and/or perishing for lack of food and/or nourishment or adequate sustenance, etc... What are you doing about it...?
Among a a great many other things - through my dialog with you here in the forum, I'm providing a venue for you to shovel it out.
 
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Jipsah

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Sure there's lots of churches where you can eat at the table of demons, leaning on your own understanding, deceiving yourself with bizarre interpretations of scripture to satisfy a lust to worship false idols and sorceries of Babylon. But is that the spirit of obedience?
Hello, Flat Earth dude! Thanks for lending your support for Young Earth Creation!
 
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Jamdoc

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Some perhaps. But certainly not me.

I have no trouble with the idea of an old universe and or an old earth. I don't agree with that thinking. But I certainly don't take exception to it or call it heresy.

I have no trouble with the concept of either evolution or genetically engineered modifications. I see no reason to subscribe to it and I don't. But I don't consider and call those who do subscribe to those things heretics or any other derogatory term.

So long as we are talking about the animal and plant kingdom excluding mankind.

Where I draw the line and call it things like liberalism and even perhaps heresy is when we are talking about the creation of mankind, the fall of mankind, and the redemption of mankind.

God is very specific when it comes to the first man's creation and that of his mate, God is very specific about how physical death and decay came into the earth through the curse He placed on that first man. God is also very specific when it comes to tying the overcoming work of the last Adam to the failure of that first Adam.

God's scripture narrative leaves absolutely no room for evolution of any kind, genetic engineering or any progression from one species, to another leading to man.

I really couldn't care less about your view of genetics, old earth, or anything else that those who compromise the plain teaching of the Word of God to line up with the teaching of those of this world subscribe to.

But it is my experience that one liberal step always leads to another.

I want no part in that slide toward probable heresy.
"leaves absolutely no room"
But it does. Because it's a very bare bones description, leaving it open for interpretation. I have seen interpretations involving the uses of the words "made" "formed" and "created" Some people interpret "created" as God creating something from nothing, brand new, "made" and "formed" as God modifying something that already existed into a new form. Not the one I subscribe to but any inconsistency in the words itself can be seen as intentionally done for a specific interpretation.
However interesting to note, the Genesis 2 description of the creation of Adam uses the word "formed" Meaning took something that already existed, and modified it to a new form, under that interpretation.
To me Eve's creation very obviously sounds like cloning from stem cells, with modification to make her female.
Does God need to use magic to impress you or something? Is that what holds you back?
 
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charsan

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So I went and asked the Orthodox here about Creation and here is the thread Creation question an here is a quote from a Priest in the Orthodox Church:

death only entered at Adam's Fall. that being said, you can believe in evolution and be in good standing.

and the early Church fathers believed in YEC so I am in good company when someone thinks me an idiot for believing in YEC
 
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Jipsah

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Because the Bible says that is not how He did it - and the Bible is the Word of God
And God's creation is the handiwork of God, and the Laws of Nature and of Physics are God's Laws. If you see a conflict there, then you're getting something wrong. "How he did it", right. "How did the surgeon save the man's life? Oh, he just took out the bad heart valve and put in a new one." Yeah, that's how, reduced to simplest terms for someone who couldn't conceivably understand what the doctor actually did. You're in the position of saying "No, the doctor can't have stopped the man's heart and cut open his chest and clamped off blood vessels and done the other dozens pf gross things you describe, all he just fixed the guy's heart." You're setting account of what God did, in broadest terms, against what we can see that He did by studying the results of what He did. There is no conflict between the two. The unbeliever and the Young Earther are equally wrong, they simply run off opposite sides of the road. The unbeliever says "you can't believe that Bible", and the Young Earther says "you can't believe the evidence of creation itself". Both end up rejecting truths of God.
 
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Jamdoc

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So I went and asked the Orthodox here about Creation and here is the thread Creation question an here is a quote from a Priest in the Orthodox Church:



and the early Church fathers believed in YEC so I am in good company when someone thinks me an idiot for believing in YEC
Not an idiot, just interpreting scritpure a different way, perhaps uneducated or ignorant depending on how you pose your arguments. The people who keep thinking I mean darwinism as in descent with modification happening completely independently of God, that I find ignorant. You can't be an old earth progressive creationist, that's your interpretation of scripture, that's fine, as long as you're not being malice towards people who interpret scripture differently. I can't be a young earth creationist.
A big point has to be made in Proverbs 25:2 God hiding some knowledge from us is to His glory, and left for us to find out. We all make assumptions into the language of scripture and form our own interpretations, and each person's interpretation is going to be tempered by their education, intuition, and most importantly of all, what makes God sound more glorious to them. Magic doesn't do it for me.
 
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solid_core

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faith in evolutionism allows some parts of the Word of God to be accepted "as reliable" while other parts no matter how obvious are declared "uncertain" if belief in evolutionism does not fit with it
Thats OK, because Bible is not reliable regarding science. We do not think in our kidneys, Earth is not flat, sun and moon are not just lights in firmanent (and, BTW, there is no firmanent) and so also the literal reading of Genesis is only a confusion.
 
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Neogaia777

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Genesis 1 to 2:4 is a summary of an entire creation, from beginning to end, while 2:5 and "on" is all about the sixth day that we are still in... Or that's the "working theory" so far anyway...

See here for more info: Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

God Bless!
Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:4...

Day 1 and 2- The creation of the universe, formation of stars/planets, solar systems, etc, the initial formation of the earth as a planet, creation and separating of "dimensions" like the separating of the Heavenly realm or dimension, from the earthly physical one or ones, etc...

Day 3- Dry land appears and is made apart from the sea or the seas, etc, earth is very "volcanic" and the sky is still dark and covered with lots of clouds of dust and ash, some light shining through but not much yet, formation of the atmosphere, and the very beginnings of very simple, extremely primitive plant life, in the form of algae, proteins and primitive bacteria, etc, primordial ooze, etc, that is going to become more complex in Day 4...

Day 4- Sky begins to clear up, and the volcanic activity on the earth begins to settle down a bit, plant life, now having more light, begins to become more complex forms of plant life, the "revealing" of the sun and moon and stars, etc, on the earth due to the skies clearing up, etc...

Day 5- The age or era of sea life, sea creatures and sea animals begin to come about and become more complex by the beginning of day 6, plant life continuing to evolve and become more complex in or on both the land and in the sea, etc, no land animals yet, etc...

Day 6- The age of land animals and man, land animals come about for the first time (from the sea creatures), and become more complex, till they eventually lead to man coming about, and the fall of man happens, etc, we are still in day 6 now till the results of the fall are fixed or restored, then will begin day 7...

Day 7- The age or era of the rule and reign of Christ on earth from Heaven, or Heaven and earth being one (again) results of the fall or consequences of the fall are restored or fixed or whatever, (we go back to being vegetarians, etc), and this age will last until the end of the earth and the universe as we know it, etc...


Adam and Eve could have been a special creation, in a selected by God specific region or specific area in the earth on or in or during day 6, the Garden of Eden, etc, then were cast out to be among the rest of the "evolved species", etc, two races or species possibly, etc, Cain could have been the first one to interbreed or intermix with these maybe, possibly, or the whole story could just be an allegory, revealing many, many truths to us about our species and the "spirits", and the spiritual, and mankind, and mankind's relationship with God, etc...

The way to resolve the issue of plants sating to come about on day 3 in Genesis 1, and there have not been any kind of vegetation sprouting up from the ground yet in the Garden of Eden on day 6 when Adam was made, is that, if the Garden of Eden was a literal Garden and special set apart from the rest of the world special creation, is that plants may have not been made to grow or come about yet "in that specific region" yet, during the time it was made and/or set apart on or during day 6 yet, but then was by God when He made Adam and put him there...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:4...

Day 1 and 2- The creation of the universe, formation of stars/planets, solar systems, etc, the initial formation of the earth as a planet, creation and separating of "dimensions" like the separating of the Heavenly realm or dimension, from the earthly physical one or ones, etc...

Day 3- Dry land appears and is made apart from the sea or the seas, etc, earth is very "volcanic" and the sky is still dark and covered with lots of clouds of dust and ash, some light shining through but not much yet, formation of the atmosphere, and the very beginnings of very simple, extremely primitive plant life, in the form of algae, proteins and primitive bacteria, etc, primordial ooze, etc, that is going to become more complex in Day 4...

Day 4- Sky begins to clear up, and the volcanic activity on the earth begins to settle down a bit, plant life, now having more light, begins to become more complex forms of plant life, the "revealing" of the sun and moon and stars, etc, on the earth due to the skies clearing up, etc...

Day 5- The age or era of sea life, sea creatures and sea animals begin to come about and become more complex by the beginning of day 6, plant life continuing to evolve and become more complex in or on both the land and in the sea, etc, no land animals yet, etc...

Day 6- The age of land animals and man, land animals come about for the first time (from the sea creatures), and become more complex, till they eventually lead to man coming about, and the fall of man happens, etc, we are still in day 6 now till the results of the fall are fixed or restored, then will begin day 7...

Day 7- The age or era of the rule and reign of Christ on earth from Heaven, or Heaven and earth being one (again) results of the fall or consequences of the fall are restored or fixed or whatever, (we go back to being vegetarians, etc), and this age will last until the end of the earth and the universe as we know it, etc...


Adam and Eve could have been a special creation, in a selected by God specific region or specific area in the earth on or in or during day 6, the Garden of Eden, etc, then were cast out to be among the rest of the "evolved species", etc, two races or species possibly, etc, Cain could have been the first one to interbreed or intermix with these maybe, possibly, or the whole story could just be an allegory, revealing many, many truths to us about our species and the "spirits", and the spiritual, and mankind, and mankind's relationship with God, etc...

The way to resolve the issue of plants sating to come about on day 3 in Genesis 1, and there have not been any kind of vegetation sprouting up from the ground yet in the Garden of Eden on day 6 when Adam was made, is that, if the Garden of Eden was a literal Garden and special set apart from the rest of the world special creation, is that plants may have not been made to grow or come about yet "in that specific region" yet, during the time it was made and/or set apart on or during day 6 yet, but then was by God when He made Adam and put him there...

God Bless!
The question came up about the whole "evening and morning" thing, and I forgot to address it, so I said this:

Evening and morning, or morning and evening, could mean the golden years or time of an age, and then the dark times or dark era of an age, or when it was prospering and thriving and when it was falling and failing and was about over or ended or was on it's decline, etc...

"Cycles" IOW's, the turning of a tide or the changing of an era, it happens in and with any system of things, or era or age of thing or things...

God Bless!
 
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The Liturgist

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Some points are reliable, some words are uncertain. Have you ever noticed that when you read three gospels together (Mark, Matthew, Luke) they describe same events differently? And quote Jesus's words differently? They even do not record the Lord's prayer in the same way.

If its so with Gospels given to the whole world about our Lord, why to suppose that Genesis given to ancient Jews about world' creation is perfect?

You raise a valid point. According to the Gospel of John, Jesus Christ is the Word. The Scriptures, according to Luke, all speak about Him, which the disciples only realized when He “opened the books” and then disappeared. The Gospels describe the Gospel from different events; what an extremely literal view might miss is that these minor variations add credibility. If all four Gospels recorded the same event the exact same way, that would actually undermine their authority.
 
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So I went and asked the Orthodox here about Creation and here is the thread Creation question an here is a quote from a Priest in the Orthodox Church:



and the early Church fathers believed in YEC so I am in good company when someone thinks me an idiot for believing in YEC

And it is for this reason that, as I stressed earlier, I have extreme respect for Young Earth Creationists, even though I personally do not adhere to this doctrine. I wasn’t there; it is possible God instantiated the Universe fully formed, and so on. People like Bill Nye who make a career attacking YECs are not in my line of thought very decent people.
 
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