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Guojing

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Taken out of context. The council of Messianic Jews wanted Paul to convince the Jews that they were for the Old Law by going through the Purification rite, but this was not a part of God's desire for them. God stopped Paul from going through with the animal sacrifice. Paul says to the Galatians that if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). Paul is obviously referring to the Law of Moses (the 613) and he is not referring to New Covenant Laws like: The Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Royal Law (James 2:8), or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25).

That is the problem with not rightly dividing the word. You tend to lump everything together.

Paul had no authority over the Jewish believers, he was only sent to the uncircumcised. Peter, James and John had the authority over the Jews.

Yes I agree with you that Paul did say that to the Galatians believers, who are Gentiles.

Galatians 2 made it clear

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 
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David Kent

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Jesus talks about the temple being thrown down (all the stones will be thrown down) before the end comes with His 2nd return. Just read the Olivet discourse again.
It was trown down and is still down today. I have read it many times, why don't you?

Behold. Your house is left unto you desolate. Matthew 23:38.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Instead he commanded them to teach others to "obey everything he had commanded them to do", which in the context of Matthew, Jesus enforced the Law of Moses and even amplified it.
The things he commanded them to do, the commandments of the new covenant, which he informed them was symbolized by the Lord's supper. While the law was in effect he said they should keep those commandments. But he came to make a new law and that was the law he commanded them to keep. Not the old law.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
 
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That is the problem with not rightly dividing the word. You tend to lump everything together.

Paul had no authority over the Jewish believers, he was only sent to the uncircumcised. Peter, James and John had the authority over the Jews.

Yes I agree with you that Paul did say that to the Galatians believers, who are Gentiles.

Galatians 2 made it clear

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This is dealing with ministry focus and not a different gospel or teaching.

The Old Law is No More - The Law has changed:

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?


Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
 
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Guojing

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The things he commanded them to do, the commandments of the new covenant, which he informed them was symbolized by the Lord's supper. While the law was in effect he said they should keep those commandments. But he came to make a new law and that was the law he commanded them to keep. Not the old law.

I understand that people who disagree with dispensationalism tend to anticipate revelation.

They assumed that everything Paul wrote in his epistles, Romans to Philemon, meant for the Body of Christ, are understood by all the 12 throughout Acts.

It may be difficult for you to put yourself in the shoes of the Jews during that transitional period during Acts.
 
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Guojing

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This is dealing with ministry focus and not a different gospel or teaching.

The Old Law is No More - The Law has changed:

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?


Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

I understand that the first time you encounter Galatians 2:9, it will prove very difficult to accept.

People who disagree with dispensationalism tend to anticipate revelation.

They assumed that everything Paul wrote in his epistles, Romans to Philemon, meant for the Body of Christ, were understood and accepted by all the 12 throughout Acts.

It may be difficult for you to put yourself in the shoes of the Jews during that transitional period during Acts. Galatians 2, Acts 15 and Acts 21-22, when read together, tells us a lot on how Paul was so controversial to the Jews and particularly James the Just, during that tumultuous period.

And it was very enlightening for me to read that, during the trial of Paul in Acts 22 onward, James and the elders basically abandoned him; they did not come to his defense at all.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Paul had no authority over the Jewish believers, he was only sent to the uncircumcised. Peter, James and John had the authority over the Jews.

Funny then that he first preached to Jews in the synagogues if he had no "authority" to do so.

Acts 9:5
5 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

No authority huh? Jesus must have been lying to Ananias.
 
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David Kent

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Josephus wrote that the Christians had all fled the city and went to the mountains of Pella before the Romans attacked. Jesus had told them to 'flee to the mountains'.
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

I would like to correct you here. It was Eusebius that said that. Josephus says when Cestus withdrew his army "without a reason in the world" when about to take the city, many prominent Jews "Fled the city as rats flee a ship that sinks."
Unless of course you have a reference to josephus where he said differently.
 
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It was trown down and is still down today. I have read it many times, why don't you?

Behold. Your house is left unto you desolate. Matthew 23:38.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Are you saying that the events in Revelation have happened already?
 
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Guojing

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Funny then that he first preached to Jews in the synagogues if he had no "authority" to do so.

Acts 9:5
5 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

No authority huh? Jesus must have been lying to Ananias.

It was decided by the 11 and James the Just during the council in Acts 15, not Jesus. And Jesus promised them that "whatever they bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven."

They might have been fine with him going to the Jews first, but it explained why in Acts 21, they were upset when those Jews overheard Paul preaching the end of the Law of Moses for Gentiles and thought it applied to them too.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I understand that people who disagree with dispensationalism tend to anticipate revelation.

They assumed that everything Paul wrote in his epistles, Romans to Philemon, meant for the Body of Christ, are understood by all the 12 throughout Acts.

It may be difficult for you to put yourself in the shoes of the Jews during that transitional period during Acts.

It isn't hard because the book of Acts shows how Peter was taught by the Spirit to include the Gentiles and that at first he found this hard to accept. He preaches in his first sermon that salvation was promised to the Gentiles, yet he did not understand until his meeting with Cornelius.

That does not preclude his knowledge about what commandments were commanded by Jesus. It does not suggest that he was still offering animal sacrifices. In fact, in Galatians we read that Peter lived "as the Gentiles" according to Paul. Not as a Jew except in the presence of Jews. He was corrected on that matter which was not about keeping the old law but in associating with Gentiles.
 
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Guojing

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It isn't hard because the book of Acts shows how Peter was taught by the Spirit to include the Gentiles and that at first he found this hard to accept. He preaches in his first sermon that salvation was promised to the Gentiles, yet he did not understand until his meeting with Cornelius.

That does not preclude his knowledge about what commandments were commanded by Jesus. It does not suggest that he was still offering animal sacrifices. In fact, in Galatians we read that Peter lived "as the Gentiles" according to Paul. Not as a Jew except in the presence of Jews. He was corrected on that matter which was not about keeping the old law but in associating with Gentiles.

Again, don't anticipate revelation. Even at his last days, Peter wrote in his epistle that he found Paul very difficult to understand.
2 Peter 3:16

It takes a lot of reading into the Bible to have the belief that Peter, in Acts, understood the Gospel of Grace for both Jews and Gentiles then.

But if you insist on having that, let us agree to disagree then. Cheers.
 
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Al Touthentop

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It was decided by the 11 and James the Just during the council in Acts 15, not Jesus. And Jesus promised them that "whatever they bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven."

They might have been fine with him going to the Jews first, but it explained why in Acts 21, they were upset when those Jews overheard Paul preaching the end of the Law of Moses for Gentiles and thought it applied to them too.

You are so keen on promoting your (erroneous) view that you don't even recognize that
1. These are the words Jesus spoke to Ananias years before the council of Jerusalem and Peter's sermon to Cornelius household
2. Jesus gave no new authority. He said, "Whatever you bind on earth will have already been bound in heaven."

Did Jesus lie to Ananias when he told him he had chosen Paul as a vessel to Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel?
 
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Al Touthentop

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Again, don't anticipate revelation. Even at his last days, Peter wrote in his epistle that he found Paul very difficult to understand.
2 Peter 3:16

This is a total misrepresentation of the text. Why do such an obvious thing, unless you're trolling?

It takes a lot of reading into the Bible to have the belief that Peter, in Acts, understood the Gospel of Grace for both Jews and Gentiles then.

I suppose so and since I acknowledged that Peter was confused on the Day of Pentecost and was finally educated when he preached to Cornelius, you must be talking about somebody else here.
 
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I understand that the first time you encounter Galatians 2:9, it will prove very difficult to accept.

People who disagree with dispensationalism tend to anticipate revelation.

They assumed that everything Paul wrote in his epistles, Romans to Philemon, meant for the Body of Christ, were understood and accepted by all the 12 throughout Acts.

It may be difficult for you to put yourself in the shoes of the Jews during that transitional period during Acts. Galatians 2, Acts 15 and Acts 21-22, when read together, tells us a lot on how Paul was so controversial to the Jews and particularly James the Just, during that tumultuous period.

And it was very enlightening for me to read that, during the trial of Paul in Acts 22 onward, James and the elders basically abandoned him; they did not come to his defense at all.

Galatians 2:9 does not say there are two different teachings.
 
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Guojing

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Galatians 2:9 does not say there are two different teachings.

For that particular passage, you need to stick to the KJV

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

If you read the other versions, including the NKJV unfortunately, they tend to use the English word "to" instead of "of".
 
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Hank77

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I would like to correct you here. It was Eusebius that said that. Josephus says when Cestus withdrew his army "without a reason in the world" when about to take the city, many prominent Jews "Fled the city as rats flee a ship that sinks."
Unless of course you have a reference to josephus where he said differently.
Thanks for the correction. I'll take your word for it as it's been a long time since I have read Josephus, my mistake.
 
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Dale

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The very first words that Jesus preached, was simply

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Interestingly enough, when L.S. Chafer quotes this passage he eliminates the crucial word "Repent." It looks like Chafer isn't interested in calling people to repent. He is only interested in the Kingdom, which he imagines to be an authoritarian theocracy.


<< This announcement was simple and plain: "The kingdom is at hand." >>

Chafer, Lewis Sperry. The Collected Works of Lewis Sperry Chafer - Seven books in one . Jawbone Digital. Kindle Edition. Satan, Chapter Two: The Ages, Kindle location 233-236.
 
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