HELL IS NOT A SECRET TO BE KEPT

[Saint Steven]

So do you "redefine and give purpose" to other the scriptures you don't agree with? Not just hell?

Your post empowered me to "eliminate" hell. Why would it not also empower me to "redefine and give purpose"? Seems you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I can no more "redefine and give purpose" to hell than I can "eliminate" it. I can only help others to better understand.

Skidder said: ↑
"I already know that you have eliminated hell..."

I have "eliminated hell"; is that a fact? You are propagating the hell myth as if it is fact.

This whole line of attack seems rather hypocritical considering what you guys are doing with the Universalist scriptures we have presented. You sweep them under the rug claiming they can't mean what they clearly say.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"Damnation" =

No such word in koine or Hebrew!

Damnable, Damnation, And Damned - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words - Bible Dictionary

How about Trinity or condemned?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your post empowered me to "eliminate" hell. Why would it not also empower me to "redefine and give purpose"? Seems you are make a mountain out of a molehill here. I can no more "redefine and give purpose" to hell than I can "eliminate" it. I can only help others to better understand.

This whole line of attack seems rather hypocritical considering what you guys are doing with the Universalist scriptures we have presented. You sweep them under the rug claiming they can't mean what they clearly say.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

As I pointed out the Greek word pas does not always mean all. I’ve already provided evidence for this. Did “all” in Judea and Jerusalem come to JTB to be baptized?

All
G3956

Lemma:

πᾶς

Transliteration:

pâs

Pronounce:

pas

Part of Speech:

Adjective

Language:

greek

Description:

1) individually a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively a) some of all types"... 'The whole world is gone after him.' Did all the world go after Christ? 'Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.' Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).

 

[BNR32FAN]

No argument there? Not true.
No, but I know quite a bit that you don't.

The Apostles and the Early Church Fathers of the Eastern/Greek church were what we now call Universalists.
The Western/Latin church gave us our Damnationist biased Bible which painted the Apostles as Damnationists.

Check this out.

"Taking a rapid survey of facts, I think we may thus arrange early eschatological teaching. There were at first, probably, three distinct currents. Some held the final annihilation of the wicked; some, especially in North Africa, held their endless punishment; some, perhaps even a majority, taught Universalism. By the days of GREGORY of Nyssa the latter view, aided doubtless by the unrivaled learning, genius and piety of ORIGEN had prevailed, and had succeeded in leavening, not the East alone, but much of the West (pp. 148-50). While the doctrine of annihilation has practically disappeared, Universalism has established itself, has become the prevailing opinion, even in quarters antagonistic to the school of Alexandria.

The waning fortunes of the dogma of endless penalty soon revived, however, and in their turn gained the ascendency. The Church of North Africa, in the person of AUGUSTINE, enters the field. The Greek tongue soon becomes unknown in the West and the Greek Fathers forgotten. A Latin Christianity, redolent of the soil, develops itself, assuming, in accordance with the Roman bent, a rigid forensic type. On the throne of Him whose name is Love, is now seated a stern Judge (a sort of magnified Roman Governor). The sense of sin practically dwarfs all else. The Father is lost in the Magistrate.

In the East the decay of the earlier belief was, if less rapid, nearly as complete. Strife within and without the Church, increasing ignorance and corruptions, bitter controversy (and other factors, p. 159) combined to form a soil in which the larger hope of earlier days at length dwindled and almost expired. Indeed, who can wonder that this was so, if he will but reflect how cruel was the age, how narrow is the natural heart of man, how slowly, even now, it responds to that which is most divine. The true wonder (to me, at least) is this, viz., the appearance in such an age as that of the later Roman empire of the very idea of Universalism - a phenomenon which can, I think, be alone accounted for by the fact that the early Fathers found it, as they tell us, in the New Testament, p. 84."

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter five

Good for you, you found a random website to support your beliefs. Hey look Christ is not God according to this website.

Jesus Christ IS NOT God

Here’s one that says He’s not the Son of God

Jesus – Son of God, not God the Son

Here’s a website that says worshipping God is pointless.

Official Church of Satan Website | churchofsatan.com

The website you provided claims that perhaps the majority of early church father’s taught universalism. Where are these quotes? I can’t seem to find them.

 

[Saint Steven]

As I pointed out the Greek word pas does not always mean all. I’ve already provided evidence for this. Did “all” in Judea and Jerusalem come to JTB to be baptized? ...

And I have already shown you that whatever you do to half of the comparison you do to the other half.

The trespass resulted in condemnation for how many people? (all)
Therefore the one righteous act resulted in justification and life for how many people? (all)

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Same applies here. If the "punishment" is not eternal, neither is the "life".
Again, it is an equal comparison.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Saint Steven]

The website you provided claims that perhaps the majority of early church father’s taught universalism. Where are these quotes? I can’t seem to find them.

So, you are asking for more "random website" links?
Not sure how that would help you.

The bottom line:
If you don't hope that Universalism is true, it will probably never be true for you, regardless of what I post. So what's the point? Seems to be a lost cause already. If you change your mind, let me know.

Galatians 4:11
I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ah, so the Lake of Fire is our chosen candidate. We can push all those others to the side of the plate, can we? Great, that makes my job even easier.

You see, hell is the eternal mass human bbq from whose borne no traveller returns, true? Well if so, I'm dreadfully sorry to disappoint, because the unbelieving nations who are consumed by fire from heaven in Rev 20:9 and cast into the LoF in Rev 20:15 actually emerge to live anew - this time honouring God - in Rev 21:24-26. And what's more, they're purified cause they get to come in through the ever-open gates of the City for healing by the leaves of the tree of life in Rev 22:2. Feel free to check, and follow the trajectory of the nations in these final revelations of scripture starting from Rev 20:7.

So there you have it, case closed and raise an alleluja!

Extra: if God was the kind of deity who consigns his enemies to endless punishment, there would be many others like him - paganism is full of that rubbish. But our God - the one true God - there is NONE LIKE HIM. Because He saves from a to z, yep and even the likes of you and me.

“When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:7-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14-15‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Then look what happens

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The ones who reject Christ are still outside and not allowed to enter.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And I have already shown you that whatever you do to half of the comparison you do to the other half.

The trespass resulted in condemnation for how many people? (all)
Therefore the one righteous act resulted in justification and life for how many people? (all)

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Same applies here. If the "punishment" is not eternal, neither is the "life".
Again, it is an equal comparison.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

The same word is also used several times throughout the scriptures to describe God’s glory and His reign. Both of which are eternal. So you don’t believe in eternal life either?!!

 

[Saint Steven]

The same word is also used several times throughout the scriptures to describe God’s glory and His reign. Both of which are eternal. So you don’t believe in eternal life either?!!

Only God is eternal, nothing else.
The references in the Bible to eternal life only refer to the next age, not a single endless age, as I understand it. No worries, each age will be followed by another age. (since God is eternal) Wouldn't you get bored sitting on a cloud for "all eternity" strumming a harp? - lol --- We'll all be ready to move on.

If "forever" is eternal, how long is "forever and ever"? (age after age)

 

[Saint Steven]

So you don’t believe in eternal life either?!!

If there is no eternal punishment, there is no eternal life.
It took me a while to get my head around that.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[FineLinen]

As I pointed out the Greek word pas does not always mean all. I’ve already provided evidence for this. Did “all” in Judea and Jerusalem come to JTB to be baptized?

Can you spell synecdoche?

Perhaps you should examine the aspects of pas a mite more in detail.

Dr. Robert Young

Author of…

1. A New Translation Of The Bible
   
   
2. New Concordance To The Greek New Testament
   
   
3. Dictionary & Concordance Of Bible Words & Synonyms.
   
   
4. Concise Concordance To Eight Thousand Changes Of The Revised Testament
   
   
5. Numerous Other Words In Biblical & Oriental Literature.

Dr. Robert Young Analytical Concordance

pa’ß =

All points, all men, all things. All, whole, completely. (1075 verses)

All = lk=

All, the whole, any, each, every, everything, totality. (24 passages)

All =lylk=

Entire, all. Complete, wholly. (15 verses)

All = br =

Multitudes/ abundance (149 verses)

All= o&loß =

All. Whole. Completely. (99 verses)

This is your mission for today, should you be willing to accept it… List the “many” Koine Greek scholars who maintain all does not mean all.

Koine Greek Scholars: All does not mean all =

1 _____________________________________________.

2.______________________________________________

3.______________________________________________

4.______________________________________________

Why not start with the Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament by William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).

 

[FineLinen]

All does not mean all

1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”

Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme. For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”

Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. (when some things are put right)”

1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.”

1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”

Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”

Eph. 4:10

“Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence.”

John 5:28

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

1 Timothy 2:4

“For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:6

“For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time.”

Cor. 5:15

“For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life.”

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)…some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

“The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God’s displeasure hangs over him continually.”

Gal. 3:20

“But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him.”

Heb. 1:2

“God…hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)”

2 Cor. 5:14

“For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again.”

Heb.8:11

“And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness…”

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

“For from him some things come; through Him some things exists; and in him some things end.” (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some.”

Heb. 12:23

“To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect.”

James 2:10

“For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some.”

Romans 3:22,23

“…the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. …For some have sinned/ none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour.”

John 17:2

“As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aeonios life to as many as thou hast given him.”

Romans 9:5

“The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages.”

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people’s conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance.”

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

John 12:32

“If I be lifted up, I will draw all unto Me.”

Radical Unbelievers Bible=

If I be lifted up, I will draw some unto Me.

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, you are asking for more "random website" links?
Not sure how that would help you.

The bottom line:
If you don't hope that Universalism is true, it will probably never be true for you, regardless of what I post. So what's the point? Seems to be a lost cause already. If you change your mind, let me know.

Galatians 4:11
I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

No I can substantiate early church writings. I’ve already done it before. Go ahead and post the link that claims the majority of early church fathers advocated universalism and I’ll provide the evidence from their writings that prives this claim is false. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve done this.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Can you spell synecdoche?

Perhaps you should examine the aspects of pas a mite more in detail.

Dr. Robert Young

Author of…

1. A New Translation Of The Bible
   
   
2. New Concordance To The Greek New Testament
   
   
3. Dictionary & Concordance Of Bible Words & Synonyms.
   
   
4. Concise Concordance To Eight Thousand Changes Of The Revised Testament
   
   
5. Numerous Other Words In Biblical & Oriental Literature.

Dr. Robert Young Analytical Concordance

pa’ß =

All points, all men, all things. All, whole, completely. (1075 verses)

All = lk=

All, the whole, any, each, every, everything, totality. (24 passages)

All =lylk=

Entire, all. Complete, wholly. (15 verses)

All = br =

Multitudes/ abundance (149 verses)

All= o&loß =

All. Whole. Completely. (99 verses)

This is your mission for today, should you be willing to accept it… List the “many” Koine Greek scholars who maintain all does not mean all.

Koine Greek Scholars: All does not mean all =

1 _____________________________________________.

2.______________________________________________

3.______________________________________________

4.______________________________________________

Why not start with the Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament by William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).

Robert Young? Awesome, your quoting a self taught 19th century Scottish theologian as evidence of what the early church taught and how to translate the Greek language. Well, call me crazy but, I prefer to take the advice of a second century Greek bishop who spoke and wrote Greek fluently during the same era that the scriptures were written and attended the very churches established by the apostles.

1. what great things the Lord had done at His coming to save those who received Him, taking compassion upon them; while they keep silence with regard to His judgment; and all those things which shall come upon such as have heard His words, but done them not, and that it were better for them if they had not been born, Matthew 26:24 and that it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the judgment than for that city which did not receive the word of His disciples. Matthew 10:15


2. For as, in the New Testament, that faith of men [to be placed] in God has been increased, receiving in addition [to what was already revealed] the Son of God, that man too might be a partaker of God; so is also our walk in life required to be more circumspect, when we are directed not merely to abstain from evil actions, but even from evil thoughts, and from idle words, and empty talk, and scurrilous language: thus also the punishment of those who do not believe the Word of God, and despise His advent, and are turned away backwards, is increased; being not merely temporal, but rendered also eternal. For to whomsoever the Lord shall say, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, Matthew 25:41 these shall be damned for ever; and to whomsoever He shall say, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you for eternity, Matthew 25:34 these do receive the kingdom for ever, and make constant advance in it; since there is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) and has judged those who are judged, that is, those who forget God, and are blasphemous, and transgressors of His word.

St Iranaeus 170AD Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 28

 

[Skidder]

Your post empowered me to "eliminate" hell. Why would it not also empower me to "redefine and give purpose"? Seems you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I can no more "redefine and give purpose" to hell than I can "eliminate" it. I can only help others to better understand.

Skidder said: ↑
"I already know that you have eliminated hell..."

I have "eliminated hell"; is that a fact? You are propagating the hell myth as if it is fact.

This whole line of attack seems rather hypocritical considering what you guys are doing with the Universalist scriptures we have presented. You sweep them under the rug claiming they can't mean what they clearly say.

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Nice try, but we know what you said, and it's still just as creepy as when you first said it:

"And no I have not eliminated "hell". I have redefined it; given it purpose."


What do I say? Leave the verses that describe hell alone, the way God wrote them. Read them just as they are written, and they will tell the truth. I don't want them "redefined" and "given purpose" by someone who thinks God's Holy Word is contradictory. No thanks, you can keep those plastic flowers.

Isaiah 66:22-24
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Daniel 12:1-2
Every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 18:6-9
“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43-48
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 13
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Revelation 14:9-11
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10, 14-15
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever….
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

How does one avoid such a terrible outcome for their sin? BY ACCEPTING the FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE that is only offered by FAITH in the ONE WHO PAID THE FULL PRICE FOR OUR SINS! The Lamb who was slain is the ONLY answer for the penalty of sin! “He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” -1 John 5:12

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; for if you do not believe that I am He, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

If there is no eternal punishment, there is no eternal life.
It took me a while to get my head around that.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Is the Creator blessed for a limited time only?

“Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves; who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭YLT

Is God’s kingdom, power, and glory for a limited time only?

“‘And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil, because Thine is the reign, and the power, and the glory — to the ages. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:13‬ ‭YLT

Is God Himself for a limited time only?

“and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith — to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to him [be] glory to the ages. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭16:26-27‬ ‭YLT

I highly doubt that was Robert Young’s intention in these translations.

 

[timothyu]

Casting hell into the Lake of Fire does not make it one and the same.

 

[FineLinen]

Robert Young? Awesome, your quoting a self taught 19th century Scottish theologian as evidence of what the early church taught and how to translate the Greek language. Well, call me crazy but, I prefer to take the advice of a second century Greek bishop who spoke and wrote Greek fluently during the same era that the scriptures were written and attended the very churches established by the apostles.

Dear BNR: I have patiently taken your youth and inexperience into consideration in all your posts.

Furthermore, there is a limit to forgiveness credits which you are rapidly reaching the outside limit.

The love of the Lord never ceases: it is without end.

However: The love of F.L. is very much, but reaches limits.

70 X 7 =490

 

[FineLinen]

Casting hell into the Lake of Fire does not make it one and the same.

Dear Tim: that is a fact! All four hells are consummated in the Lake of Theos. We shall miss every one of them.

Death and hell (s) final end = Theos.

 

[Der Alte]

Only God is eternal, nothing else.
The references in the Bible to eternal life only refer to the next age, not a single endless age, as I understand it. No worries, each age will be followed by another age. (since God is eternal) Wouldn't you get bored sitting on a cloud for "all eternity" strumming a harp? - lol --- We'll all be ready to move on.
If "forever" is eternal, how long is "forever and ever"? (age after age)

Please provide some credible, verifiable etc. evidence that only God is eternal? Sounds like a personal interpretation to make scripture fit your biases, assumptions and presupposition.
Hebrew lacked superlatives so to emphasize a word the Jewish writers would double it. A Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger, wrote a book about "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" You should give it a read. In Gen 2:17 God said "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." The Hebrew words read literally "muth tamuth" "dying you shall die."
Meanwhile here is a study I did of the words aion/aionios.
In twenty four [24] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
List of verses:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26, John 3:36, John 4;14, John 6:27,
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

[1]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[2]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.

[3]Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]​

In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

[4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[5]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.​

In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only lasts a little longer which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.​

In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[7]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​

In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”

[8] 1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”

[9]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”

[10]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[11]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[12]1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”

[13]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​

In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”

[14]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.​

In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”

[15]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.​

In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[16]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”

[17] John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.

[18] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[19]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[20]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​

In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[21]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.​

In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[22] John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse aionios life is contrasted with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[23] John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.​

In this verse aionios is contrasted with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[24]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​

In this verse “aionios meat” is contrasted with “meat that perishes” .” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[25]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."​

According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ ου μη/ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying whoever obeys Him will die, i.e. see death, unto the age, by definition aion means eternity.