America is the Best, Most Free, and Most Prosperous Country on Earth: Change My Mind

[98cwitr]

Freedom isnt free.

Insane people running around with military weapons is the price we pay. Willingly.

When you put the decision making of what is or is not "hate speech" into the hands of a select few, and then these bombings start and you cannot speak out against the immigration policies because it's the immigrants who are committing them, then what recourse do you have to get the laws changed and stop the invasion from continuing?

Censorship in Sweden - Wikipedia

You're right, freedom isn't free, but freedom does indicate that a citizen is not a slave to their state.

 

[Fantine]

Interesting discussion.

And pointless.

Because so much of it is based on every individual's perception. During the stock market boom of the 1990's, my husband lost two great jobs---and one of the reasons for the stock market boom, mergers and acquisitions and venture capitalism, was the main reason for those job losses. If YOU are the one who is unemployed, it doesn't matter if the percentage of unemployment is 3%.

Similarly, how "free" do elementary and high school students feel when they have to participate in regular "intruder drills," stopping, dropping, and silencing themselves, in order to protect the 100% unreasonable demands for "freedom" for gun owners? It makes me sick to hear my friend, a preschool teacher, talk about the "pancake" drills she has to do with her preschoolers, where they lie down flat as pancakes and remain silent for five minutes. Do we have to terrorize 3 year-olds because gun owners won't allow universal background checks or assault weapons bans?

The second amendment on steroids diminishes my freedom--my peace of mind.

If we are the 'most prosperous' but that prosperity is held in the hands of a few is that real prosperity?

 

[durangodawood]

When you put the decision making of what is or is not "hate speech" into the hands of a select few, and then these bombings start and you cannot speak out against the immigration policies because it's the immigrants who are committing them, then what recourse do you have to get the laws changed and stop the invasion from continuing?

Censorship in Sweden - Wikipedia

You're right, freedom isn't free, but freedom does indicate that a citizen is not a slave to their state.

Speaking of slaves to the state, we have literally more of them in prison than any other country in the world, not raw number.... but per capita.

Now, whether their imprisonment is justified or unjustified, either way it speaks to something insanely wrong going on here.

 

[98cwitr]

Speaking of slaves to the state, we have literally more of them than any other country in the world, not raw number.... but per capita.

Now, whether their imprisonment is justified or unjustified, either way it speaks to something insanely wrong going on here.

I don't see chain gangs on the side of the road much anymore. You also may want to check your claim against www.globalslaveryindex.org, because per capita it is estimated that 22% of the population are slaves in CAR.

I have zero issue with thieves, rapists, and murderers being put to labor. Why would you?

 

[durangodawood]

I don't see chain gangs on the side of the road much anymore. You also may want to check your claim against www.globalslaveryindex.org, because per capita it is estimated that 22% of the population are slaves in CAR.

I'm talking about imprisonment and incarceration rates by the state.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm talking about imprisonment and incarceration rates by the state.

But why? Why spin the data in that way specifically? I'm missing the acute significance.

 

[durangodawood]

But why? Why spin the data in that way specifically? I'm missing the acute significance.

You said, verbatim: You're right, freedom isn't free, but freedom does indicate that a citizen is not a slave to their state. (my bolding)

Thats what I responded to.

The data I have in mind is here: List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

 

[98cwitr]

You said, verbatim: You're right, freedom isn't free, but freedom does indicate that a citizen is not a slave to their state. (my bolding)

Thats what I responded to.

The data I have in mind is here: List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

When you commit a felony, you give up those rights. Crimes are your choice, not the state's.

 

[durangodawood]

When you commit a felony, you give up those rights. Crimes are your choice, not the state's.

Yes, thats why I said even if the imprisonment is justified. Either way, there's a sickness here.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't see chain gangs on the side of the road much anymore. You also may want to check your claim against www.globalslaveryindex.org, because per capita it is estimated that 22% of the population are slaves in CAR.

But it's really easy to get a gun there.

 

[98cwitr]

But it's really easy to get a gun there.

Not legally: Guns in the Central African Republic — Firearms, gun law and gun control

 

[Ricky M]

As I was told this was a debatable topic, I figured I'd post here to let the debate ensue.

Definitions:

Best: most productive of good : offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction

Free: enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another

Prosperous: marked by success or economic well-being

The USA is the largest debtor nation in the world. Debtor Nation Definition

Please don't vote until you become better informed.

 

[durangodawood]

When we're comparing America favorably to failed-states (CAR), thats really scraping the barrel.

 

[Speedwell]

Not legally: Guns in the Central African Republic — Firearms, gun law and gun control

I didn't think that made a difference to you. After all, isn't the reason you want a gun is to defend yourself and your family against the government?

 

[98cwitr]

I didn't think that made a difference to you. After all, isn't the reason you want a gun is to defend yourself and your family against the government?

Of course it does. Criminals in the US get guns illegally all the time. It's the government acknowledging the right to self-defense that is the important aspect of freedom that I am attempting to emphasize. That's why the OP is true IMO. But again, feel free to do issue a compelling counter to change my mind. You may not believe me, but I do have an open mind about this topic.

 

[98cwitr]

The USA is the largest debtor nation in the world. Debtor Nation Definition

Please don't vote until you become better informed.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that we need to measure that figure against GDP to ascertain the solvency of a nation's economy and currency?

 

[Speedwell]

Of course it does. Criminals in the US get guns illegally all the time. It's the government acknowledging the right to self-defense that is the important aspect of freedom that I am attempting to emphasize. That's why the OP is true IMO. But again, feel free to do issue a compelling counter to change my mind. You may not believe me, but I do have an open mind about this topic.

I don't know about that. We've been around that block before and I have the distinct impression that any gun law at all is regarded as a slippery slope leading to confiscation. In my opinion is possible for the government to "acknowledge the right to self-defense" and still require mandatory background checks, registration and liability insurance.

 

[98cwitr]

I don't know about that. We've been around that block before and I have the distinct impression that any gun law at all is regarded as a slippery slope leading to confiscation. In my opinion is possible for the government to "acknowledge the right to self-defense" and still require mandatory background checks, registration and liability insurance.

Registration leads to confiscation. History has proven and continues to prove this.

 

[Speedwell]

Registration leads to confiscation. History has proven and continues to prove this.

It didn't for the original militiamen to which the 2nd Amendment refers.

 

[Sparagmos]

If you've got to dig up an event from 24 years ago to attempt to make a valid argument, while ignoring what's happening in Sweden right now, I am not sure such rhetoric grants any validity to your argument. I will let the further readers decide though.

Sweden does not protect free speech, and Sweden does not acknowledge the right to self-defense as the US does. So no, Sweden does not provide the level of freedom that the US does, regardless of your sourced, dare I say biased, metric.

Hurrah indeed.

I find your metric sickening. The freedom to kill. The best self-defense is being kind and ethical in your dealings.