Debunking Flat Earth

[A_Thinker]

And in the helio model the earth is constantly accelerating and decelerating as it rotates away and towards the direction of orbital travel.

This is bunk ....

 

[A_Thinker]

The atmosphere is not a solid barrier and free space has impedance/ resistance, and apparently cis-lunar space is not a perfect vacuum. so it should get blown away. Plus why doesn't the atmosphere not get sucked into the massive low-pressure vacuum to make equilibrium by the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Let me guess - coz gravity?

Gravity is the greater force here ...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's an artificial distinction.

Like all conceptual distinctions.

The point was material science relies on certain metaphysical presuppositions.

Of course; no argument there.

See, it's overreaching in the extreme and nothing but pride and puffery hiding behind a veneer of scientific objectivity to assert any real knowledge, without a theological basis, at least in the sense of an overarching generative and governing principle. Otherwise you're like the Indians fumbling with the elephant in the dark room.

Knowledge in science is not absolute, it's provisional, qualified by levels of confidence or probability. There are no certainties about observations of the world. If you feel that's not 'real knowledge', so be it. Nevertheless, it's useful - it underlies most of the technology in your life, just as metaphysical presuppositions underlie science itself (science & technology - another 'artificial distinction'?)

Oh the irony. Einstein was rejecting absolutism in principle (an absolute rejection lol!) So to employ an 'absolute' in the service of relativity is really rich.

Not really; he was exploring a hypothesis that could explain certain observations, and relativity was a prediction or consequence of that hypothesis.

So look, if you reject absolute certainty, then out goes truth, and you have no ground on which to stand, apart from making claims of the nature 'this convention is prettier than that one'. Truth, not your business. Leave that to those of us with eyes to see and lips to praise God.

Science makes no claim to truth; it's about finding the best descriptions and explanations for our observations of the world. In that, it has been very successful in finding explanations that work, i.e. that make fruitful predictions.

Truth and proof are for formal logical systems (and the unverifiable claims of religious believers).

 

[Strathos]

These statements are not new and very common. However, all they do is show that you have not done much research on this subject.

The reason that this is not "easy", "simple" or even possible is due to the simple facts that the atmosphere contains humidity and dust particulates. Over very large distances, these contaminants make the images appear just as the one you are arguing about..

Try googling long distance photos with IR. These will give some images that are difficult to explain on the globe model.

Yeah, we've all heard your excuses before. The atmosphere magically makes things invisible past an arbitrary cutoff point (although for some reason if you go to a higher elevation you can see farther). Pull the other one.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

where does the bible say the earth is flat, again?

 

[Skreeper]

Thanks, but we all went through that. It was called indoctrination aka high school. There are just insurmountable problems with the standard model when you scratch the surface. It requires so many unproven assumptions to prop it up, and needs to ignore or fudge so much contrary evidence as to be indistinguishable from a large-scale fraud.



I suggest you need to remove those rose-coloured glasses and apply some critical thinking. Take gravity, it's experimentally unprovable - no independent variable to isolate. And then generalising it to a governing universal principle! Lord puhlease!



You're joking. Darwinian macro-evolution is ludicrous. Can't explain biogenesis or speciation. Theory of life that can't explain whence why or whither. Evolution was soundly debunked in the 80s by mainstream peer-reviewed biologists, but all that just gets buried. If you're a physicist who wants to badmouth Einstein, good luck getting a job or a grant.



You're right, there have been some good developments in technology, medicine, engineering, materials and so on. But my point is that true science always needs to presuppose absolutes, and the moment it dispenses with those it falls into relativity, which leads to confusion and insanity of the likes of the 'holographic simulated multiverse' sci-fi, the inability to distinguish between the imagined and the real.

In the meantime mankind still suffers injustice, sickness, ignorance etc. These problems haven't been addressed, just weaponised.



We can't possibly know with any level of confidence that the 'universe' is billions of years old. There is no reliable way to date any materials. It's all based on unproven assumptions, and dressed up to sound authoritative.


It is, as J Edgar Hoover once said (along the lines) 'A conspiracy so monstrous that the mind refuses to accept it'. You should look into who owns the financial system - every dollar in circulation (plus the rights to interest) is property of a small cabal. It's a proprietary system. Once you have that kind of power, you wield the 'power of preferment' over any industry, institution or theory you like.



The power of groupthink cannot be underestimated. If the boss wants something done a certain way, that's how you do it, even if there appears a simpler solution. If you got taught that various assumptions are uncontentious, you proceed in good faith on the expectation that those items are proven. It's the house of cards principle. But my friend, build your house not on sand, but on Jesus Christ the rock of ages. You won't be disappointed.

People sometimes ask me: "Hey Skreeper, how come you're an anti-theist. Why can't you live and let live?"

Then I can point to posts like this and say: "Because people like this exist."

 

[JacksBratt]

Yeah, we've all heard your excuses before. The atmosphere magically makes things invisible past an arbitrary cutoff point (although for some reason if you go to a higher elevation you can see farther). Pull the other one.

I guess you haven't seen the post that I put up where a gentleman cuts through some of this clutter using IR and sees things that should not be visible due to the simple fact that they should be beyond the curve..... Pull the other one.. yourself.


There are many examples of people seeing things and recording videos or pictures of things that are fully visible at distances that should put them beyond the curve.

You don't have to see England from Newfoundland to prove that.

 

[JacksBratt]

People sometimes ask me: "Hey Skreeper, how come you're an anti-theist. Why can't you live and let live?"

Then I can point to posts like this and say: "Because people like this exist."

So..... because people that are dishonest exist? So.... you're an anti Theist?

OK....

 

[JacksBratt]

Water is held in place by gravity and is moving along with the rest of the surface of the Earth.

If you have ever been inside an plane objects inside function just like when you are stationary. You can throw a ball or pour a drink and it doesn't matter that the vessel you are inside is moving at almost a thousand kilometers per hour.

That's fine... until you, then, want to change the goal posts and state that there is "Coriolis" effect...You cannot have both.

Either everything is in motion and carries along with the rotation of the earth.... As water, air and all objects keep moving like inside a vessel....

Or, it doesn't

 

[JacksBratt]

where does the bible say the earth is flat, again?

If you are really serious about looking into the biblical presentation of the shape of the earth, take some time and watch these two videos.

Sadly, it is getting increasingly difficult to find anything on the web about the FE without it being presented by someone who has supposedly "debunked" the FE view.

However, there is a plethora of sites that give very strong arguments against these sites.. Except, they are now very difficult to find.

Seems like YouTube and Google have fine tuned there search engines. I used to find much more by FE presenters than I do now....

Sorry for my skepticism but I don't think you will watch them in their entirety.

 

[SkyWriting]

If you are really serious about looking into the biblical presentation of the shape of the earth...

Most of scripture is from Man's point of view, not God's.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

 

[46AND2]

I don't believe it is. All that's been claimed is that we can't see the township. As I said, the entirety of those facing parts of the island should be obscured on ball math predictions.

Have a look at the 18 mile mirror flash vid. There's many more where that came from.

Too funny. You go right back to hand-waving after I show you a vid which demonstrates quite clearly that there is obscured land, which you tacitly admit by attempting to explain it with a globe interpretation :

Probably swell. Cause when you have the sea bed moving at around 900 mph underneath that body of water, it's bound to create some turbulence. (I'm presuming the water's somehow entrained to earth's motion in your model?) Why not try it experimentally with a scale model. Or just consider it. Tidal waves, that's what it must be, caused by the massive shear force exerted by motion of the sea bed due to earth rotation.

It's good to know that Catalina cliffs are max around 700ft, they should be totally obscured in the JTolan vid I posted.

So what about the point to point 18 mile mirror flash? There's scores of similar vids to this. This has been done to death, and producing the odd anomaly that you can squeeze into a ball model is really too little too late.

And we are left with you STILL avoiding giving an explanation on how that land can be obscured on a flat earth.

I'll get to your other vid after you start answering our questions, instead of avoiding them at all costs. I have no desire to add refutation after refutation that you simply ignore. At least man up and say you can't explain it.

 

[46AND2]

I don't know if others have found this, but it is getting every increasingly difficult to google for FE sites that present the argument for the FE. I do know that some "right" leaning sites that expose the fake news of all that is going on and many sites are almost impossible to find now. Google and YouTube have changed their search algorithms so that things are more difficult to find.

The question is why? If something is totally wrong and there is no evidence for it... Why are they working hard to conceal it.

I used to be able to google and find lots of these...

Anyway, I can no longer tell people to "google" it. They will never have the patience to find the proper search request to access the things that are being concealed.

I did find this, however, after much difficulty.

Stunning long range imaging over 100 miles in infrared reveals the amazing flat earth reality!, page 1

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. :rolls eyes:

We have already been talking about one of that dude's videos. This whole Catalina Island discussion is about his IR video of the island.

There are a lot of videos on the page you referenced, so I watched the one titled the same as the page title. He just shows images of mountain peaks which SHOULD be visible on the globe. I'm not sure why you think this is a big deal.

For example, he images Mt. San Jacinto at 150 feet elevation from 120 miles away. That mountain is over 10k feet high, with 3500+ feet of that expected to be visible on a globe earth.

Care to respond to my video with the guy measuring a 500 gram weight at different latitudes and getting results expected of a spinning globe?

 

[JacksBratt]

Most of scripture is from Man's point of view, not God's.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

I guess most scripture is not understood then?

 

[A_Thinker]

That's fine... until you, then, want to change the goal posts and state that there is "Coriolis" effect...You cannot have both.

The Coriolis Effect is not so apparent in our experience. The most significant effect is that storms rotate in opposite directions in the North and South hemispheres.

The world is effected by various forces, the main ones being the gravitational force, the electromagnetic force, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force.

All of these forces are in effect in our living, to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the situation.

The point is ... that the real world isn't so black and white ...

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If you are really serious about looking into the biblical presentation of the shape of the earth, take some time and watch these two videos.

Sadly, it is getting increasingly difficult to find anything on the web about the FE without it being presented by someone who has supposedly "debunked" the FE view.

However, there is a plethora of sites that give very strong arguments against these sites.. Except, they are now very difficult to find.

Seems like YouTube and Google have fine tuned there search engines. I used to find much more by FE presenters than I do now....

Sorry for my skepticism but I don't think you will watch them in their entirety.

why don't we start off with some scriptural passages and work from there?


….anything?

 

[Shemjaza]

That's fine... until you, then, want to change the goal posts and state that there is "Coriolis" effect...You cannot have both.

Either everything is in motion and carries along with the rotation of the earth.... As water, air and all objects keep moving like inside a vessel....

Or, it doesn't

It most certainly has an effect and with some effort we can even detect it... just like I'm sure there are many experiments that you can use to detect motion inside a plane. But because it has matched velocities and is enclosed by atmosphere these effects are minimal.

 

[Kylie]

The question is why? If something is totally wrong and there is no evidence for it... Why are they working hard to conceal it.

Probably to stop wrong ideas for which there are no evidence for from being promoted as fact.

 

[Strathos]

I guess you haven't seen the post that I put up where a gentleman cuts through some of this clutter using IR and sees things that should not be visible due to the simple fact that they should be beyond the curve..... Pull the other one.. yourself.


There are many examples of people seeing things and recording videos or pictures of things that are fully visible at distances that should put them beyond the curve.

You don't have to see England from Newfoundland to prove that.

Awfully convenient how the magic cutoff point for how far you can see things on a flat earth is only a bit farther than it is on a round earth... but never far enough that it can't be accounted for by refraction.

 

[46AND2]

Awfully convenient how the magic cutoff point for how far you can see things on a flat earth is only a bit farther than it is on a round earth... but never far enough that it can't be accounted for by refraction.

Particularly when that magic cutoff only affects relatively short objects, yet does not cutoff the mountain in the background.