Heaven and Earth passing away - what does this mean?

[expos4ever]

There is clear precedent in the Old Testament of such imagery being used metaphorically to refer to political change.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is it is it?

tis it....

 

[ewq1938]

Then the Law (which is more than ordinances) would have no effect - right? But Steven was killed using the Law.

Yes but they used a law that no longer was supported by God and wrongly used it as well. It was purely man driven at that time because they rejected Christ and the new law which is the new covenant. Scripture states the law is the words of a covenant.

I believe - as written in Hebrews - the law was made obsolete, but would then soon disappear (and it DID - IMB - disappear in 70 A.D.).

It speaks of it being old and dead....and about to disappear when the scripture was written and that was before AD70.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


That is like a dead animal that is rotting away but not gone. It doesn't suggest the law was still validly in use. People were obeying a dead and rotted law in ignorance and misusing it. It's still being used today, just not in full since the loss of the temple but it's still the wrong law being followed.

 

[DennisTate]

That topic has recently come up in another thread and it really is its own thread.

When we read these passages - is this the literal earth and literal heaven......or does it mean something else:

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

​

......and this question was also asked:

A theory that I heard elaborated on was that the first heaven was the heaven that Adam and Eve experienced previous to the fall........

the second heaven was the kingdoms of this world previous to the resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus......

and the third heaven is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus ruling the earth through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit that he has sent to us.......

So the passing away of the first and second heaven along with the earth in this fallen state is logical if this idea is true.

More information on this in this book:

The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

 

[GingerBeer]

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

All three passages may be circumlocutions for "never ever" thus "my words will never ever pass away" and "the Law will never ever pass away without first being accomplished".

 

[keras]

Is it?

Two words, LLoJ? Miracles do happen!
Now if only you would remove your pretty pictures. At least the flying van has crashed out!

Regarding when the heavens and the earth will be renewed; Revelation 21:1-5 is indisputable; AFTER the Millennium.
However; there is coming a Day when the ungodly will be punished by fire sent by the Lord. Amos 1, Zephaniah 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Thess 2:6-8, 2 Peter 3:8, +
This great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, Joel 2:30-31, Luke 21:25-26, +, will change the world and commence all the prophesied events leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

That topic has recently come up in another thread and it really is its own thread.

When we read these passages - is this the literal earth and literal heaven......or does it mean something else:

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

​

......and this question was also asked:

I feel these passages are alluding to Judgement Day; are they not? Not certain why you'd think differently? Please respond...as I read some of the comments in the meantime.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Please refer to these threads as well:

Partial Preterist Only - What are the Partial Preterists view of the New Heaven and Earth in the Bible


Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

A-Mil Only - Amill views on the New Heaven and Earth in Bible

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

As an A-mil I answer as I already have...this passing away of heaven and earth is at Judgement Day...God then makes a new heaven and a new earth...
Revelation 21:1-3:
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

 

[klutedavid]

That topic has recently come up in another thread and it really is its own thread.

When we read these passages - is this the literal earth and literal heaven......or does it mean something else:

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

​

......and this question was also asked:

I have always read this verse the same way.

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

The law is in place until the end of the world or everything is accomplished.

If circumcision is still compulsory, then obviously the law is still in full force. If everything has been accomplished, i.e., reconciliation through the blood of Jesus. Then the law will disappear as a means to righteousness, replaced by a righteous in Jesus Christ.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Two words, LLoJ? Miracles do happen!
Now if only you would remove your pretty pictures. At least the flying van has crashed out!

Regarding when the heavens and the earth will be renewed; Revelation 21:1-5 is indisputable; AFTER the Millennium.
However; there is coming a Day when the ungodly will be punished by fire sent by the Lord. Amos 1, Zephaniah 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Thess 2:6-8, 2 Peter 3:8, +
This great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, Joel 2:30-31, Luke 21:25-26, +, will change the world and commence all the prophesied events leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

I see these references as prophecy of Judgement Day and not a different day as you do and I think you need to be more convincing by way of Scripture references here. The ungodly will be punished by fire on the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord which is Judgement Day.
Acts 17:30:
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
Where Scripture says God has set *a* day I believe it means just that...A day...not multiple days.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I have always read this verse the same way.

Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

The law is in place until the end of the world or everything is accomplished.

If circumcision is still compulsory, then obviously the law is still in full force. If everything has been accomplished, i.e., reconciliation through the blood of Jesus. Then the law will disappear as a means to righteousness, replaced by a righteous in Jesus Christ.

I agree...however, to the ungodly the Law remains, eternally, and the ungodly will be judged by it on Judgement Day. Remembering the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus here...the rich man was told that his relatives had Moses (meaning the Law); let them listen to him.

 

[klutedavid]

I agree...however, to the ungodly the Law remains, eternally, and the ungodly will be judged by it on Judgement Day. Remembering the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus here...the rich man was told that his relatives had Moses (meaning the Law); let them listen to him.

Very good reply.

Indeed, the law is for the unrighteous.

Also, the unbelievers could be found wanting under the golden rule anyway.

Though we still have a debt to God and that is to love others.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Very good reply.

Indeed, the law is for the unrighteous.

Also, the unbelievers could be found wanting under the golden rule anyway.

Though we still have a debt to God and that is to love others.

Yes, indeed, agreeing again and most emphatically. We as Christians live under what Romans refers to as Christ's law which is by the way of the Spirit which is love!

 

[Christian Gedge]

2 Peter 3:5-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Sounds clear enough to me.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, indeed, agreeing again and most emphatically. We as Christians live under what Romans refers to as Christ's law which is by the way of the Spirit which is love!

The Law of the Spirit...

Rom 8

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[keras]

Sounds clear enough to me.

When, CG?
Remember that Noah's Flood didn't make a new heaven and earth, just cleansed it of the ungodly.

2 Peter 3:5-7 says the same will happen again, this time using fire.​

Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and many other prophesies say the Lord will cleanse His peoples Land, so that all the faithful peoples can live there. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

​

 

[sdowney717]

When, CG?
Remember that Noah's Flood didn't make a new heaven and earth, just cleansed it of the ungodly.

2 Peter 3:5-7 says the same will happen again, this time using fire.​

Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and many other prophesies say the Lord will cleanse His peoples Land, so that all the faithful peoples can live there. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

​

The world that then existed was destroyed. The promise is God will create new heavens and a new earth. The old ones both earth and heaven flee away from His face , they are gone and nothing of them is left and all we see is the great white throne judgement. The world of Noah supported gigantic creatures which may mean there was more oxygen in the air, there was no rain, a mist came up out of the ground to water the surface, Nephilim hybrids roamed the earth. Violence filled the earth and all life on land was corrupted from how God had made it to be. Tropical animals and plants are fossilized in the antarctic, so that land was not a land of continual frozen cold.

That earth would have been like an alien experience to any of us. And imagine if you had gone to see the cherubim with a flaming sword guarding the way to Eden. They would have been a visible presence to the people if they journeyed there else why would God guard the way to Eden to prevent reentry.

Genesis 3:24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 6:13[ The Ark Prepared ] And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

While it is a similar earth we live on today, it is not the same as that earth that was destroyed, it has all been changed including the water cycle as before there was no rain and rain was not needed.
Since the earth was overwhelmed by such a great flood, all the land was resurfaced, parts would have been sunken and other parts raised. A real miracle though is God restored the plant life, otherwise none of the animals could have lived after getting off the ark.

Peter also taught that the earth was formed out of water, just as Genesis records. The water under the earth is the great deep, and the earth sits upon the deep which exists under the earth. It may also be that that earth structurally sat upon the great waters, and now sits upon fiery liquid rock and water mixed. I is likely God kindled the coming fires of destruction under the earth when he reformed the earth after the flood.

For dry land to appear, water has to recede or land has to be raised up out of the water.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The Law of the Spirit...

Rom 8

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Law of the Spirit...

Yes, and so that's little l not capital L. Capital L Law refers to the OT Law...traditionally. There are more passages, here are a couple excellent ones...(version = EHV)
Romans 7:6:
But now we have been released from the law by dying to what held us in its grip, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the letter of the law.
Romans 13:9-10:
For the commandments—do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal (and if there is any other commandment)—are summed up in this statement: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor, so love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[His student]

Heaven and Earth passing away - what does this mean?

It means just what the Bible tells us it means in the Book of Revelation.

Rev_21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I know there all kinds of Preterist types ans such and some people want to tell us how symbolic these things are and we aren't to take any of them literally.

But please. The book is called Revelation - not Obscuration.

 

[dqhall]

The Law of the Spirit...

Rom 8

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

In the Book of Exodus there is a law against murder as part of the Ten Commandments. In Numbers 15:32-36 the Israelites stoned someone to death for gathering sticks during the Sabbath. The law against murder is good. Killing someone for a trivial violation is bad. The law contained good and bad. Faith is in discerning this. The law is kept as some will find the good in it and reject the evil parts in other verses.

In the 1940’s a shepherd discovered the Dead Sea scrolls in a cave overlooking the Dead Sea at Qumran. These scrolls were used to correct textual errors in later Biblical texts as some of the wording became distorted in time. These scrolls were written during the time of Christ. We may know we have the law Jesus was talking about from the five Books of Moses. The NIV translation looked to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

This heaven described in the original post is astronomical and is comprised of physical matter and energy. The spiritual heaven is unseen except in the results of its actions.