Debunking Flat Earth

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Nothing to do with equivalence, that's the origin of your big bang cosmology, your darwinian evolution, your new age quantum physics. The likes of the fillthy black magik pages of the Qabbalah and the Zohar.

Well, no.

 

[JacksBratt]

You seem a little taken with the idea of lasers, but they were not part of the engineering of the tunnel - nor of those eighteenth century canals of course.
Of course if you do not believe that the Channel tunnel took account of the earth's curvature you only have to ask the engineers on the project. They say they did, and what possible reason would there be to lie about it?

You claim that they did not use lasers.
You claim that they took the curve or the earth into account..

Yet, you have no proof of either of these statements.

I'm not "taken" with the idea of lasers... They are a tool that is best used to measure straight lines over long distances... That's it.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You claim that they did not use lasers.
You claim that they took the curve or the earth into account..

Yet, you have no proof of either of these statements.

I'm not "taken" with the idea of lasers... They are a tool that is best used to measure straight lines over long distances... That's it.

They did use lasers in the channel tunnel construction - during the initial surveying, and also the tunnel-boring machines were laser-guided.

Eurotunnel engineer checking laser guidance system for the Channel Tunnel to ensure the tunnels remain accurately aligned.

 

[loveofourlord]

The majority of creationist like myself, do not believe the world is flat or that the Bible teaches that is flat, quite the reverse.

The prophet Isaiah nearly twenty-eight centuries ago said ... "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" Isaiah 40:22 (NKJ). When Isaiah wrote this verse he used the Hebrew word "khug" to describe the shape of the earth. Although this word is commonly translated into "circle," the literal meaning of this word is "a sphere".

except it's been pointed out there is a better word for ball already and I've heard no legitimate claim it means sphere, that seems to be a modern translation. Plus even if so, 1 person saying circle doesn't negate the others.

 

[JacksBratt]

They did use lasers in the channel tunnel construction - during the initial surveying, and also the tunnel-boring machines were laser-guided.

Eurotunnel engineer checking laser guidance system for the Channel Tunnel to ensure the tunnels remain accurately aligned.

See, that wasn't hard....

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

See, that wasn't hard....

What wasn't hard?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It is a photograph taken of an island off Corsica, elevation 85 ft + lighthouse 40 ft at a distance of 326 miles from an elevation of 3112 ft.

The hidden height at that distance on the globe model should be 43,848 ft. YET IT IS VISIBLE.

Here's a link to a curve calculator, run the numbers yourself.
Earth Curve Calculator

Please explain how this could occur on your ball earth.

The calculator you linked has an assumption that light travels in straight lines as it states on the top. It doesn't due to different refraction phenomena. The amount of refraction depends on atmospheric conditions such as temperature and pressure. Generally the colder and more dense the air is the greater the refraction. Refraction can bend light up or down depending on the boundary layers it travels through. Looming is the most common result of seeing long distances.

I don't know if the places in the video are correct, but if this is real, I bet that those mountains cannot be seen all the time. At certain times you can see the Pyrenees from Marseilles which are 165 miles apart but not all the time. This affect is well known and can be calculated if the conditions are known.

Also, notice in your video, about 2:12, when they have the curvature calculator the refraction value is set at 0. This is not accurate. If that is the actual island that can be seen in the video over that distance the refraction is unusually large and rare but not impossible. If the earth was flat wouldn't you be able to see these objects all the time from these distances? The fact is that you don't.

 

[d taylor]

and what if the answers are, science showed you the truth of the world, and you turned people off from Christianity by holding to false ideas of the world?

I know science is lying When the Bible states that God separated the waters from waters and then placed the sun, moon and stars in this raqia separating the waters. That is something i see most every day (when it is not cloudy). I see the sun, moon and stars moving over the earth again most everyday.
I see in the raqia the two great lights created by God sun and moon shinning as they have been since the day God created them.
It is people (especially christians) who believe science over the Bibles witness about Gods creation. They are the ones propagating false ideas.

The truth from the Bible is offensive to the world especially to a world who sinful. I look for people looking for eternal life, more than likely they will have ears to hear. What is called science today (evolution, astronomy, etc..) has no place in explaining truth about Gods creation. God gave man (specifically the church age) what He God wants us to know about His creation, salvation, discipleship, living the christian life and how to serve God. He gave us the scriptures that tell us all He wants us to know at this point in time. You seek further knowledge outside of the scriptures, you will be feed lies about God creation.

 

[loveofourlord]

I know science is lying When the Bible states that God separated the waters from waters and then placed the sun, moon and stars in this raqia separating the waters. That is something i see most every day (when it is not cloudy). I see the sun, moon and stars moving over the earth again most everyday.
I see in the raqia the two great lights created by God sun and moon shinning as they have been since the day God created them.
It is people (especially christians) who believe science over the Bibles witness about Gods creation. They are the ones propagating false ideas.

The truth from the Bible is offensive to the world especially to a world who sinful. I look for people looking for eternal life, more than likely they will have ears to hear. What is called science today (evolution, astronomy, etc..) has no place in explaining truth about Gods creation. God gave man (specifically the church age) what He God wants us to know about His creation, salvation, discipleship, living the christian life and how to serve God. He gave us the scriptures that tell us all He wants us to know at this point in time. You seek further knowledge outside of the scriptures, you will be feed lies about God creation.

You say that, but reality says otherwise, and one of us will have to explain to god why we caused people to leave or reject him, and all flat earthers are doing is convincing people that the bible was correct in thinking it was flat therefore it has no truth to it.

 

[loveofourlord]

I know science is lying When the Bible states that God separated the waters from waters and then placed the sun, moon and stars in this raqia separating the waters. That is something i see most every day (when it is not cloudy). I see the sun, moon and stars moving over the earth again most everyday.
I see in the raqia the two great lights created by God sun and moon shinning as they have been since the day God created them.
It is people (especially christians) who believe science over the Bibles witness about Gods creation. They are the ones propagating false ideas.

The truth from the Bible is offensive to the world especially to a world who sinful. I look for people looking for eternal life, more than likely they will have ears to hear. What is called science today (evolution, astronomy, etc..) has no place in explaining truth about Gods creation. God gave man (specifically the church age) what He God wants us to know about His creation, salvation, discipleship, living the christian life and how to serve God. He gave us the scriptures that tell us all He wants us to know at this point in time. You seek further knowledge outside of the scriptures, you will be feed lies about God creation.

And those that only seek answers in scripture will be blinded by their own arrogance in that only they know the truth of the bible and will ignore anything showing they are incorrect about their beliefs. I have science and everything that I can see in the world, you just have the bible, which will never allow you to see when your wrong.

 

[Strathos]

Reading a flat earth into the Bible seems to be a consequence of not understanding the concept of figures of speech. The Bible is filled with literature and poetry. It wasn't written as a scientific treatise or a straightforward historical narrative.

If a flat earther read Romeo and Juliet, they'd think that Shakespeare was literally saying that Juliet was the sun.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Or, just you misunderstanding what he was trying to communicate.



This is what he is claiming is an island visible from 325 miles looks like*:

View attachment 265779

Convincing, eh? Seriously, the resolution gets no better than the video's teaser pic..




*image captured from :

We apologise that a photo taken from that distance is a little blurry. But I accept the point, it could be a poodle at 50m behind a fuzzy filter.

So try this one on for size instead, same principle applies.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Reading a flat earth into the Bible seems to be a consequence of not understanding the concept of figures of speech. The Bible is filled with literature and poetry. It wasn't written as a scientific treatise or a straightforward historical narrative.

If a flat earther read Romeo and Juliet, they'd think that Shakespeare was literally saying that Juliet was the sun.

The difference with the Bible is that it uses perfect figures of speech, not pretentious rubbish like human poets do. That's why the likes of Shakespeare and Milton stood in awe of the Bible for its literary value alone. So when it describes the earth's features standing out 'as clay under seal', you can bet the Holy Spirit used a flat metaphor because it accords with physical reality. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

And those that only seek answers in scripture will be blinded by their own arrogance in that only they know the truth of the bible and will ignore anything showing they are incorrect about their beliefs. I have science and everything that I can see in the world, you just have the bible, which will never allow you to see when your wrong.

Unfortunately today's 'science' can't even tell me what colour the grass or sky is, or which direction is 'up', or what's really at rest and in motion. Everything's just a probable effect on an observer, a relative frame of reference etc. Science is knowledge, and knowledge requires certainty.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Or that the people who wrote the Bible were people of their time and place. In the Ancient Near East, many peoples had a similar cosmology. A flat earth surmounted by a solid vaulted ceiling/firmament

Compare with Egypt:

Why is there water above the heavens? How else is a boat carrying the sun going to get from one side to the other?

I don't know why there's waters above, it's just what was there at the beginning. God separated the waters from the waters, we're told. Am I understanding your question correctly, the firmament is depicted in both the Hebrew and Egyptian versions.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I don't know why there's waters above, it's just what was there at the beginning. God separated the waters from the waters, we're told. Am I understanding your question correctly, the firmament is depicted in both the Hebrew and Egyptian versions.

It was a rhetorical question.

Egyptians, the Sumerians, and the authors of the Old Testament all shared the same Ancient Near East picture of what the earth and heavens looked like.

The Egyptian god Ra piloted the sun boat across the sky (and back again across the waters of the underworld beneath the earth at night). Boats need water to function, so that's one reason why the cosmology has water up there in the sky.

 

[Strathos]

The difference with the Bible is that it uses perfect figures of speech, not pretentious rubbish like human poets do. That's why the likes of Shakespeare and Milton stood in awe of the Bible for its literary value alone. So when it describes the earth's features standing out 'as clay under seal', you can bet the Holy Spirit used a flat metaphor because it accords with physical reality. God is not the author of confusion.

Where do you think rain comes from?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

It was a rhetorical question.

Egyptians, the Sumerians, and the authors of the Old Testament all shared the same Ancient Near East picture of what the earth and heavens looked like.

The Egyptian god Ra piloted the sun boat across the sky (and back again across the waters of the underworld beneath the earth at night). Boats need water to function, so that's one reason why the cosmology has water up there in the sky.

Ok, I thought you may have been pointing to a difference that the Hebrew model has the sun, moon and stars within the firmament, whereas the Gyppos have them outside.

Perhaps this was at the very heart of the ancient antagonism between Israel and Egypt, and will be only finally resolved when the bow of Pharoah is finally broken in the Valley of Jezreel.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Where do you think rain comes from?

All's I know is it falls on the plane and on God's green grass, and God sends it on the good and the evil alike. For He is merciful even to His enemies. You know, you couldn't even draw your next breath without His grace. If that was withdrawn, we would just be a pile of ashes. Praise be to He who is above all things.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Well, no.

Correct, modern cosmology is a big no-no. There's a mismatch between theory and experiment of 10^130 according to Michiu Kaku. That means it requires a lot of faith. In fact, I don't have that much faith! So I put my small measure of faith in God. He's never failed me yet.