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Views on the New Heaven and Earth in Revelation 21:1

LittleLambofJesus

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4 verses that show a new heaven/s and earth.
Heavens is plural in the verses of Isaiah and 2 Peter, and singular in Reve 21.

All views welcome, and please feel free to post any commentaries relevant to the OP.

Isa 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Isa 66:22
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the LORD,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
2Pe 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwell

Rev 21:1
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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A word of advice. When you write a wall of text, you're writing to yourself.
I wanted to read this, but you exhausted me. Now your message is lost.
Consider the reader in your next post.
Point taken.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Point taken.

Wow. Thanks. I have now read your post. :)

Do you think we will see the new heaven and new earth in our lifetime? Or the new Jerusalem?

I will have a few more questions after this.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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A few more NT Scriptures:
Why is the "Law" included in Matt and Luk? It has nothing to do with non-Jewish Gentiles........

Mat 5:18
“For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mar 13:31
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Luk 16:17
“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 21:33
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Messenger 3k said:
Mkgal, you're wrong.

LloJ, your posts are unnecessarily long.

JLB, you're right. The law was fulfilled on the cross. It's that simple.

Then Ed,

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You're declaring that heaven and earth passed away at the cross. Do you not realize that?

And please tell us how Christ fulfilled all of the feasts of Leviticus 23 at the cross. Leviticus 23 KJV Mkgal1 has a fine post on the atonement--ask her for it.

He's correct because the law couldn't change unless that happened and the law did change at the cross. Christ wasn't saying the literal Earth and Heaven would disappear. He was talking of Earth and Heaven ages...certain periods of time end and begin and an age ended at the cross. The new age is known as the church age or the new covenant age.
Interesting post.
The author of this site seems to believe that there have been multiple destruction of the heaven and earth thru out the ages.
I just came across the article as I have always viewed Revelation as "Covenantle"........
I have never seen it explained in that manner as this site:

Galatians 4:24 which things is an allegory. For these are the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who-any is Hagar. 25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving with the offpspring of Her.26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. 30Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. 31 Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.
The author of this site seems to believe that there have been multiple destructions of the heaven and earth thru out the ages.
I just came across the article as I have always viewed Revelation as "Covenantle"........
I have never seen it explained in that manner as this site

The Covenantal Significance of the Destruction of Heaven and Earth - Revelation Revolution


Thus the destruction of heaven and earth is said to occur around the time of the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians according to Jeremiah 4:23-26 and then again at the fall of Babylon which resulted in the return of the Jews from exile and the subsequent rebuilding of the Temple shortly thereafter. Here one can see that the destruction of heaven and earth seems to accompany both the time of the destruction and rebuilding of the Temple. Since the Temple is necessary to perform the Law of Moses, it is perhaps not surprising that the destruction of heaven and earth seems to mark both the destruction and rebuilding of the Temple which marked the cessation of the practice of God’s covenant with Israel at Mt. Sinai and its resumption.

I believe the sixth time heaven and earth were destroyed and recreated was during the Maccabean Wars. During this war the Jews fought for and temporarily won their sovereignty from Greece during a series of battles in the second century B.C. This war began when the Seleucid Empire attacked Jerusalem and seized the Temple, desecrated it and put a stop to the practice of the Law. The Temple remained under Greek control until it was seized by Jewish rebels under Judas Maccabees and reconsecrated three years later. With the Temple seized and the Jews thus unable to perform the stipulations of the Law, God’s covenant with the Jews was temporarily put on hold and heaven and earth was destroyed. The destruction of heaven and earth at this time is implicit in Zechariah 14. In this chapter events fulfilled in the Maccabean Wars are painted in imagery mimicking the steps and events of the creation of heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1-10.

As was the case at the destruction of heaven and earth during the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites and the conquest of Israel by the Babylonians, the destruction of heaven and earth during the establishment of God’s covenant of forgiveness of sins brought on by the cross foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-35 was also enacted by military conquest. The full implementation of this new covenant, Christianity, was symbolized by the destruction of Israel and its Temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 which, as stated above, made it impossible to follow the Law of Moses.

dThe fact that it was and is impossible to fully follow the Law from A.D. 70 to the present because the Temple had been destroyed implies that the Law had been fulfilled and the old covenant established at Mt. Sinai was replaced by a new covenant—Christianity. Not surprisingly the establishment of God’s new covenant with Israel, Christianity, which came into full effect in A.D. 70 at the destruction of the Temple was also marked with Biblical imagery denoting the destruction of heaven and earth as is strongly implicit in Revelation 6:12-14.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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Interesting post.
The author of this site seems to believe that there have been multiple destruction of the heaven and earth thru out the ages.
I just came across the article as I have always viewed Revelation as "Covenantle"........
I have never seen it explained in that manner as this site:


The author of this site seems to believe that there have been multiple destructions of the heaven and earth thru out the ages.
I just came across the article as I have always viewed Revelation as "Covenantle"........
I have never seen it explained in that manner as this site

The Covenantal Significance of the Destruction of Heaven and Earth - Revelation Revolution


Thus the destruction of heaven and earth is said to occur around the time of the destruction of the Temple by the Babylonians according to Jeremiah 4:23-26 and then again at the fall of Babylon which resulted in the return of the Jews from exile and the subsequent rebuilding of the Temple shortly thereafter. Here one can see that the destruction of heaven and earth seems to accompany both the time of the destruction and rebuilding of the Temple. Since the Temple is necessary to perform the Law of Moses, it is perhaps not surprising that the destruction of heaven and earth seems to mark both the destruction and rebuilding of the Temple which marked the cessation of the practice of God’s covenant with Israel at Mt. Sinai and its resumption.

I believe the sixth time heaven and earth were destroyed and recreated was during the Maccabean Wars. During this war the Jews fought for and temporarily won their sovereignty from Greece during a series of battles in the second century B.C. This war began when the Seleucid Empire attacked Jerusalem and seized the Temple, desecrated it and put a stop to the practice of the Law. The Temple remained under Greek control until it was seized by Jewish rebels under Judas Maccabees and reconsecrated three years later. With the Temple seized and the Jews thus unable to perform the stipulations of the Law, God’s covenant with the Jews was temporarily put on hold and heaven and earth was destroyed. The destruction of heaven and earth at this time is implicit in Zechariah 14. In this chapter events fulfilled in the Maccabean Wars are painted in imagery mimicking the steps and events of the creation of heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1-10.

As was the case at the destruction of heaven and earth during the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites and the conquest of Israel by the Babylonians, the destruction of heaven and earth during the establishment of God’s covenant of forgiveness of sins brought on by the cross foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-35 was also enacted by military conquest. The full implementation of this new covenant, Christianity, was symbolized by the destruction of Israel and its Temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 which, as stated above, made it impossible to follow the Law of Moses.

dThe fact that it was and is impossible to fully follow the Law from A.D. 70 to the present because the Temple had been destroyed implies that the Law had been fulfilled and the old covenant established at Mt. Sinai was replaced by a new covenant—Christianity. Not surprisingly the establishment of God’s new covenant with Israel, Christianity, which came into full effect in A.D. 70 at the destruction of the Temple was also marked with Biblical imagery denoting the destruction of heaven and earth as is strongly implicit in Revelation 6:12-14.


Signol, Emile. Taking of Jerusalem by the Crusaders. 1847

I believe the final prophecy concerning the destruction and creation of heaven and earth was fulfilled one thousand years after the destruction of heaven and earth during the Jewish War predicted in Revelation 6:12-14. During the thousand years between the Jewish War and the Crusades, Israel grew to become an almost exclusively Christian nation. The spread of Christianity in Israel between the Jewish War and the Crusades is the Thousand Year Reign mentioned in Revelation 20. At the end of that thousand year interval, the Seljuk Turks, coming from the land of Gog which is in modern day Turkey, conquered Israel in 1071 A.D.—exactly one thousand years after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. After seizing Israel, the Seljuk Turks harassed and killed Christian pilgrims on holy pilgrimage to Israel. This molestation of Christian pilgrims incited the first Crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog. See Revelation 20: A Preterist Commentary, Ezekiel 39:1-20: A Preterist Commentary and Ezekiel 38: A Preterist Commentary.


The First Crusade occurred 1000 years after the Jewish War with Rome and is the Battle of Gog and Magog.

As was the case at the destruction of heaven and earth during the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites, the conquest of Israel by the Babylonians, the conquest of Babylon by the Medes and Persians, the conquest of the Maccabees over the Seleucids and the conquest of Israel by the Romans, the destruction of heaven and earth at the Crusades was also marked by military conquest. Though Christian Europe won the first battle, the Battle of Gog and Magog, during the First Crusade, the Christian Crusaders ultimately lost political control over Israel in subsequent Crusades. As a result Israel grew to become a predominantly Muslim nation by the end of the Crusades. Here one can see the religious significance of this instance of the destruction and recreation of heaven and earth.

After the Jewish War and the subsequent Bar Kockba Rebellion, Christianity replaced Judaism as the dominant religion in Israel. After the Crusades, Islam replaced Christianity as the dominant religion in the region. Though Islam replaced Christianity as the dominant religion in the Israel, this fact, I believe, does not make obsolete the new covenant instituted by the cross. Remember that after the flood and the establishment of the then new heaven and earth, God promised to never again destroy the land with a flood according to Genesis 9:11. This covenant is presumably still in effect even today despite the fact that heaven and earth had been destroyed several times since then. Furthermore, though the covenant of the Law inaugurated at Mt. Sinai was temporarily nullified at the destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians in the sixth century B.C., and then again during the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanies during the Maccabean Wars of the second century B.C. this fact did not permanently put an end to the covenant at Sinai until heaven and earth had been destroyed centuries later at the final destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. Therefore, after the institution of a new heaven and earth, subsequent renewals of heaven and earth do not necessarily nullify old covenant promises. The only time in which a new covenant replaced an old one was in A.D. 70 when the covenant of the Law was replaced by a new covenant of forgiveness called Christianity. That having been said, I do not believe that the destruction of heaven and earth at the time of the Crusades invalidates the previous covenant established by Christ at the cross and finally put into full effect at the destruction of heaven and earth during the Jewish War (Matthew 5:17-18).

  1. The following is an interesting quote from the Dead Sea Scrolls: “I [God] will cause my glory to rest on it [the tent of meeting] until the day of creation on which I shall create my sanctuary [Solomon’s Temple], establishing it for myself for all time according to the covenant I have made with Jacob in Bethel.” (The Temple Scroll col. 29.) Does “the day of creation” refer to the time of the construction of the Temple itself? Or could this “day of creation” refer to the construction of the cosmos at the time of the building of Solomon’s Temple?
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  1. 2d6d9a0a066e3451c8abebd0c843a4b5
    Ron May 12, 2015 at 7:02 pm
    Interesting: “Then Babylon conquered Judea and destroyed the first temple making it impossible to fully follow the customs of the Law of Moses (…) During this time God issued Israel a certificate of divorce. (…) The temporary nullification of the Law of Moses was marked by the destruction of the first temple…”
    The destruction of the first temple happened at the NINTH OF AV!
    At the NINTH OF AV the second temple was also destroyed and the Law of Moses nullified (for ever). This was a clear sign for the jews. Today is an annual fast day in Judaism which commemorates the destruction of the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem and the subsequent exile of the Jews from the Land of Israel. The day also commemorates other tragedies which occurred on the same day, including the Roman massacre of over 500,000 Jews at Betar in 135 CE.

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HopeInJesusOnly

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"The problems with preterism are many. For one thing, God’s covenant with Israel is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:33–36), and there will be a future restoration of Israel (Isaiah 11:12). The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18). And Jesus’ mention of “this generation”should be taken to mean the generation that is alive to see the beginning of the events described in Matthew 24."

Source: What is the preterist view of the end times? | GotQuestions.org
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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"The problems with preterism are many. For one thing, God’s covenant with Israel is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:33–36), and there will be a future restoration of Israel (Isaiah 11:12). The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18). And Jesus’ mention of “this generation”should be taken to mean the generation that is alive to see the beginning of the events described in Matthew 24."

Source: What is the preterist view of the end times? | GotQuestions.org
Historicism is also a type of Preterism which that site apparently embraces and is within orthodoxy [as is Amill/Idealism/Partial Preterism]................I suppose you could say I am all 3........

Btw, thanks for the link to that site.

What is historicism? What is the historicist interpretation of the book of Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What is historicism? What is the historicist interpretation of the book of Revelation?"
Answer: In philosophy, historicism is an approach to history that assigns a particular meaning to an event according to that event’s context within the arc of history. In some cases, this results in viewing historical change as a power in and of itself. Historicism can be as extreme as claiming that certain changes are “historically inevitable,” as though history were a force on par with gravity or magnetism. In most cases, however, the term historicism simply refers to a careful interpretation of events with a mind to their cultural, historical, and political contexts.

In theology, historicism is an approach to eschatology and prophecy in general. In historicism biblical prophecies are interpreted as representative of literal historical events. Historicism looks at the whole of Bible prophecy as a sweeping overview of church history, from Pentecost to the end times. This approach involves interpreting symbols or figures in the Bible as metaphors for actual events, nations, or persons of history. Historicism was especially popular during the Reformation, when it was used to suggest that the Catholic Church was part of the end-times apostasy, with the pope as the Antichrist.

Historicism is distinguished from other views of eschatology: idealism (the events of Revelation are entirely symbolic of the cosmic struggle between good and evil); preterism (the events of Revelation were fulfilled in AD 70); and futurism (the events of Revelation await a future, end-times fulfillment during the tribulation and beyond). Historicism falls between preterism and futurism in its approach: according to historicism, most of Revelation is symbolic of persons and events in world history. The book of Revelation was prophecy when John wrote it, according to historicists, but most of the book has already been fulfilled in our day.
==========================
What is the definition of idealism? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What is the definition of idealism?"
Answer: In popular culture, an idealist is generally defined as “a person who sees the world as it could be rather than as it currently exists.” An idealist is full of hope, even to the point of impracticality; Don Quixote was an idealist. However, that definition has little to do with idealism as a philosophy. Idealism, for the purpose of this article, is the belief that reality is fundamentally a mental concept. In this worldview, everything knowable is composed of the mind or spirit and reality is defined by one’s self-consciousness. Various philosophers have taught idealism throughout history, including Plato.
=====================
Is partial preterism biblical? What do partial preterists believe? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "Is partial preterism biblical? What do partial preterists believe?"
Answer:
Those who hold to partial preterism believe that the prophecies in Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation (with the exception of the last two or three chapters) have already been fulfilled and were fulfilled no later than the first century AD. According to partial preterism, there is no rapture, and passages describing the tribulation and the Antichrist are actually referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Roman emperor Titus.
Partial preterists do believe in the return of Christ to earth and a future resurrection and judgment,
but they do not teach a millennial kingdom or that Israel as a nation has a place in God’s future plan. According to partial preterists, the Bible’s references to “the last days” are speaking of the last days of the Old Jewish Covenant, not the last days of the earth itself.
================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION
=================
What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What is amillennialism?"
Answer: Amillennialism is the name given to the belief that there will not be a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ. The people who hold to this belief are called amillennialists. The prefix “a-” in amillennialism means “no” or “not.” Hence, “amillennialism” means “no millennium.” This differs from the most widely accepted view called premillennialism (the view that Christ’s second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the millennial kingdom is a literal 1,000-year reign) and from the less-widely accepted view called postmillennialism (the belief that Christ will return after Christians, not Christ Himself, have established the kingdom on this earth).

However, in fairness to amillennialists, they do not believe that there is no millennium at all. They just do not believe in a literal millennium—a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth. Instead, they believe that Christ is now sitting on the throne of David and that this present church age is the kingdom over which Christ reigns. There is no doubt that Christ is now sitting on a throne, but this does not mean that it is what the Bible refers to as the throne of David. There is no doubt that Christ now rules, for He is God. Yet this does not mean He is ruling over the millennial kingdom.
==============
Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

Futurism compared to forms of fulfilled eschatology:
Futurism: Futurism is the eschatological viewpoint that interprets portions of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Daniel, and other prophecies, as future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context.
  • Historicism: in Christian eschatology is a method of interpretation which associates biblical prophecies with actual historical events and identifies symbolic beings with historical persons or societies. The main texts of interest are apocalyptic literature, such as the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation.
  • Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.
  • Partial Preterism: Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.

    Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You should speak to someone. Find friends who love you and support you. Do things outside this forum.

God bless and keep you.
And the same for you.
God bless and keep you........
 
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