'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled

[zippy2006]

'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled


For a man renowned for his civility, the language was blunt. During his annual speech to the Anglican Church’s Sydney synod, Archbishop Glenn Davies told supporters of same-sex marriage to “please leave us”.

“My own view is that if people wish to change the doctrine of our church, they should start a new church or join a church more aligned to their views,” he said. “But do not ruin the Anglican Church by abandoning the plain teaching of scripture.”

In a report published on the Sydney Anglicans website, Davies’s media manager, Russell Powell, said the archbishop had received a standing ovation at the end of his address – as indeed he had.

But in pockets of the hall, there was also discomfort, if not with the core sentiment then with the tone. Davies has long been frustrated by what he believes is the excessive liberalism or tolerance of other Australian bishops towards same-sex relationships, particularly among clergy.


Now he watches as two relatively small parts of the church – the dioceses of Wangaratta in Victoria and Newcastle in New South Wales – are moving to bless same-sex marriages.

Pro-gay marriage Anglicans are walking a fine line in the Australian church. Some want a full marriage rite, such as the one that exists in the Episcopal Church of the US. Others, such as the members of the Wangaratta synod, have voted to bless same-sex marriages conducted under civil law. To Sydney’s “guardians” (their word) of orthodoxy, it is a distinction without difference.

More at link: 'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled | Andrew West

Heresy among Anglican leaders has long plagued the communion. It's great to see a prominent archbishop hold up scripture and the faith. I wish Catholic leaders would do this more often.

 

[redleghunter]

Treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.

Yes. I would not expect my church to bless my sin.

So I agree. I would expect my church to help me with what I struggle with.

 

[redleghunter]

How are we supposed to treat others?

You mean like a leper coming to Jesus seeking healing? Heal them.

 

[redleghunter]

The result seems to cause a lot of trouble to the Australian Anglican community

The bishop is causing trouble?

 

[Optimus Fortis]

But but I was told by libertarians that what consenting adults do in private was irrelevant.

 

[GingerBeer]

Archbishop Glenn Davies told supporters of same-sex marriage to “please leave us”.

“My own view is that if people wish to change the doctrine of our church, they should start a new church or join a church more aligned to their views,” he said. “But do not ruin the Anglican Church by abandoning the plain teaching of scripture.”

Looks as if he wants more denominations to arise. I guess that may mean he is not much interested in ecumenism.

 

[GingerBeer]

We only just legalised gay marriage. The culture is at the point of demanding we not just tolerate the gay lifestyle but celebrate it at every level of government and society and church.

The media is not the nation's culture. The media's culture is what makes for good sales to drive better advertising revenue. I live in Australia and my culture doesn't feel any pressure to "celebrate" "the gay lifestyle" - whatever that is intended to mean.

 

[GingerBeer]

I would say that this statement has Anglicans rattled in large part because trying to reject one another, rather than to discern our way through disagreements together and resolve issues through dialogue, is not the Anglican way. And it seems to be a statement calculated to further a climate in which formal schism in Australia is likely

I agree, the comments by bishop Glenn Davies appear to contradict the wide tent theology claims made by Anglicans.

 

[Not David]

But but I was told by libertarians that what consenting adults do in private was irrelevant.

Libertarianism is cringe.

 

[zippy2006]

I agree, the comments by bishop Glenn Davies appear to contradict the wide tent theology claims made by Anglicans.

All tents have edges.

 

[GingerBeer]

All tents have edges.

That may be true. Anglicans like to say their tent is very broad.

 

[Albion]

The result seems to cause a lot of trouble to the Australian Anglican community

So it seems. I will be interested to see what the longer-range impact is. Australia has not seen much in the way of rival Anglican jurisdictions. In the USA, they are more common.

However, the original impetus for founding of the "Continuing Anglican" movement--changes in the prayer book and the ordination of women--appear rather esoteric and, frankly, disinteresting to many members of the major Anglican federation of churches called the "Anglican Communion."

Many more church members drew the line at the church deciding to normalize the "same sex" agenda. In the USA, that change produced a new and bigger exodus as well as the departure of many church members of The Episcopal Church who now simply stay home and who, therefore, are not accounted for in the membership statistics of any other church bodies.

 

[Philip_B]

Of course The Archbishops of Sydney's comments were not made in a vacuum. Single Gender Matrimony has become a matter for discussion in the Australian Church as a result of the referendum and changes in the secular laws in Australia.

Earlier this year the General Synod published a collection of essays on the subject, and certainly there are a number of approaches taken on the matter in those essays (link is below). The purpose of the essays was to help us have a proper discussion on the matter. Ultimately that does not, or at least should not, mean standing on a soap box and declaring my way or the highway! This may well have been ArchBishop Glenn Davies last Synod as his retirement is immanent. He has certainly been of late at odds with the Bishop of Newcastle - Bishop Peter Stewart his nearest episcopal neighbor to the north - and they both made submissions to a recent Legislative Council Hearing on the nature of religious freedom and what it means in the face of anti discrimination legislation, and they took contrary views.

It is easy, but perhaps not constructive, to simply take one side or the other. That approach will always only resolve in schism. The Church has always been something of a household of discontent, in that we have always held people with a variety of views. The Acts of the Apostles clearly demonstrates that, and our struggle to find unity in diversity has been a hallmark of successful church life.

Archbishop Glenn Davies comments were made a week before the Newcastle Synod was due to discuss the matter, and may well have been a effort on his part to steer that Synod where he has no voice directly. There is no need to glorify or demonise either of these Bishops, who with fear and trembling are trying to seek the lost, bring back the strayed, and bind up the injured, and strengthen the weak, and feed them with justice.

https://anglican.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Marriage-Doctrine-Essays-Final.pdf

 

[charsan]

'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled


For a man renowned for his civility, the language was blunt. During his annual speech to the Anglican Church’s Sydney synod, Archbishop Glenn Davies told supporters of same-sex marriage to “please leave us”.

“My own view is that if people wish to change the doctrine of our church, they should start a new church or join a church more aligned to their views,” he said. “But do not ruin the Anglican Church by abandoning the plain teaching of scripture.”

In a report published on the Sydney Anglicans website, Davies’s media manager, Russell Powell, said the archbishop had received a standing ovation at the end of his address – as indeed he had.

But in pockets of the hall, there was also discomfort, if not with the core sentiment then with the tone. Davies has long been frustrated by what he believes is the excessive liberalism or tolerance of other Australian bishops towards same-sex relationships, particularly among clergy.


Now he watches as two relatively small parts of the church – the dioceses of Wangaratta in Victoria and Newcastle in New South Wales – are moving to bless same-sex marriages.

Pro-gay marriage Anglicans are walking a fine line in the Australian church. Some want a full marriage rite, such as the one that exists in the Episcopal Church of the US. Others, such as the members of the Wangaratta synod, have voted to bless same-sex marriages conducted under civil law. To Sydney’s “guardians” (their word) of orthodoxy, it is a distinction without difference.

More at link: 'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled | Andrew West

Good for the ArchBishop. Satan has been getting in to many Churches lately

 

[Brightmoon]

I’m Episcopalian my church will just welcome them and I’m fine with that.

 

[grampster]

I don't object to the Archbishop of Sydney having or upholding his view, but to do so in these terms has severe consequences which I don't believe he took into account appropriately.

My comment is with respect to you, ma'am. Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and I rather don't believe he took into account appropriately the severe consequences. The problem with many Christians today is that we are too ready and willing to accept sin as a charitable, Christian thing. We all sin...for sure. But we are to own up to it and repent of it, not defend it.

Jesus did not tell the adulterous woman to "Go, keep sinning and be more inclusive and accepting". Jesus told her to go and sin no more.

 

[zippy2006]

My comment is with respect to you, ma'am. Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and I rather don't believe he took into account appropriately the severe consequences. The problem with many Christians today is that we are too ready and willing to accept sin as a charitable, Christian thing. We all sin...for sure. But we are to own up to it and repent of it, not defend it.

Sometimes we have to do what is right, come what may.

 

[Anthony2019]

Sexuality is a very divisive subject amongst Anglicans and there is often strong disagreement over theological and ethical issues.

The way I see it, no one is trying to change the "doctrine" of the Anglican church or abandon the "plain meaning of scripture". There are simply many Anglicans who feel that isolating and stigmatising the LGBT community is damaging the witness and ministry of the church. My local diocese, which is known for being inclusive and accepting of LGBTs, has stated that they wish to exemplify the "radical Christian inclusion founded in scripture, in tradition, in theology and the Christian faith as the church has received it". They state that "the basic principle is that all people are welcome in God’s Church: everyone has a place at the table. There is no theological problem with simply providing welcome, an extension of the welcome that God continually offers to each of us".

I am sorry to disappoint Archbishop Glenn Davies, but I am an Anglican who believes in radical Christian love and inclusion and I have no intention of leaving the church.

 

[Steven Beck]

To be fair, I don't think that's just because of particular decisions made by leaders. Our society is deeply divided in all sorts of ways, and the Church has to try to navigate those divisions with grace and joy and peace. Not a simple process!

Nope the church is to be separate from the world. Jesus said,
Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

The church NEVER navigates divisions, its job is to apply the CROSS. We love the sinner but not the sin. The sinner if he/she does not repent will have a fiery eternity.

Your job in the church is to apply the GOSPEL not be a social justice warrior.

 

[Steven Beck]

Sexuality is a very divisive subject amongst Anglicans and there is often strong disagreement over theological and ethical issues.

The way I see it, no one is trying to change the "doctrine" of the Anglican church or abandon the "plain meaning of scripture". There are simply many Anglicans who feel that isolating and stigmatising the LGBT community is damaging the witness and ministry of the church. My local diocese, which is known for being inclusive and accepting of LGBTs, has stated that they wish to exemplify the "radical Christian inclusion founded in scripture, in tradition, in theology and the Christian faith as the church has received it". They state that "the basic principle is that all people are welcome in God’s Church: everyone has a place at the table. There is no theological problem with simply providing welcome, an extension of the welcome that God continually offers to each of us".

I am sorry to disappoint Archbishop Glenn Davies, but I am an Anglican who believes in radical Christian love and inclusion and I have no intention of leaving the church.

Then you are the problem not the solution. I give you the scenario. You are a witness at the white throne judgement and it is the turn of a homosexual that you know to be judged. At the end of the judgement Jesus throws that person into the fire and then looks at you. You will feel good because you were INCLUSIVE?