the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

[Kenny'sID]

Edited for
Daniel C

This guy is obviously the type who can ask the questions but has no answers to his own claims,so be cautious of going down that rabbit hole.

No Answers? Where did you ask me a question? And why do you make false claims against me (boasting)? Prove your point or I'll assume it's as it always is and OSAS has to make things up, in order to make their side seem right, I see it all the time around here.

''And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

Does "believe" there mean we must also believe what Christ says, and tells us to do? Or do we no longer need to concern ourselves with that, as in "believe" doesn't mean if we love Christ we will keep his commandments?

If you say we do need to believe what Christ said, please tell me what you make of the following verse? Do we need to be good and not do evil in order to make it to heaven, or do we no longer have to worry about that?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

There are a few questions there and after your accusation, I hope you "have answers" all of them.

 

[Vicky gould]

This guy is obviously the type who can ask the questions but has no answers to his own claims,so be cautious of going down that rabbit hole.[/QUOTE

“Father forgive them they know not what they do.”

Where did you hear the things you claim are truth. You have repackaged Grace to Grace plus works. Legalism comes in many forms and you are trying to remove Christ’s yoke for the yoke not even the patriarchs could carry.
You know there are plenty who did and do preach on this very subject and we who believe this always open the way for you folks to vent your disagreement. You make wild claims such as the one above that our salvation is in our hands and His.talk about doctrine that is wrong you don’t get much more error than is contained in those few words. It is either all Christ or it isn’t. You want to believe it’s part you and partly the Lord by all means please do so.
You did not like my answer the Bible when you asked where I got this from. Why that is I don’t know. Where did you get your teaching?

 

[Daniel C]

No Answers? Where did you ask me a question? And why do you make false claims against me? Prove your point or I'll assume it's as it always is and OSAS has to make things up like off the wall meaningless comments such as that, in order to make their side seem right, I see it all the time around here.

No offence meant.

I asked a question in post #53. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the stumbling block most works-salvation advocates can't harmonize with their false theology.

the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Are you trying to boast?

I think anyone who believes they can work for salvation is earning a wage,against God. So ultimately there is a debt that's accumulated. Do you think the creator can be in debt to the fallen creation?

 

[Vicky gould]

No Answers? Where did you ask me a question? And why do you make false claims against me? Prove your point or I'll assume it's as it always is and OSAS has to make things up like off the wall meaningless comments such as that, in order to make their side seem right, I see it all the time around here.

''And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

Does "believe" there mean we must also believe what Christ says, and tells us to do? Or do we no longer need to concern ourselves with that?

If you say we do need to believe what Christ said, please tell me what you make of the following vwerse? Do we need to be good and not do evil in order to make it to heaven, or do we no longer have to worry about that?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

As usual the judaizers get angry making wild and as usual accusations. You are not wanting to discuss you are in the business of condemning which you won’t understand. For the sake of peace on this forum let’s give me the right to face my Lord and Savior on pure grace and you can stand on the ground of saved by faith kept by works. God bless

 

[Kenny'sID]

I asked a question in post #53. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the stumbling block most works-salvation advocates can't harmonize with their false theology.

Who do you speak pf that has salvation with works and not Christ? do you call being obedient to God and doing as Christ tells us, "works"

the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Who is boasting? That is the only question you asked of me "are you trying to boast". So first, Id ask where i boasted? and we can go from there.

Are you trying to boast?

No, that is yet another attempt to make those who feel we need to be obedient to God into bad people...it's what OSAS does, and if I am incorrect, please show me where I boasted?

OK, I have commented/answered all your questions now, will you please do the same and answer the few in post 61?

 

[Kenny'sID]

As usual the judaizers get angry making wild and as usual accusations.

A false accusation in itself, please tell me where I was angry?

You are not wanting to discuss you are in the business of condemning which you won’t understand.

I have answered questions and posed them, what else must I do to meet your guidelines for a discussion?

As usual the judaizers get angry making wild and as usual accusations. You are not wanting to discuss you are in the business of condemning which you won’t understand. For the sake of peace on this forum let’s give me the right to face my Lord and Savior on pure grace and you can stand on the ground of saved by faith kept by works. God bless

So, now that the question get a bit hard to answer, you are both going to bow out of the discussion? And you accuse me of not wanting to discuss?

Oh, my.

 

[Kenny'sID]

For the record, I pose "all" the questions in post 61 (post beginning with "Edited for") to both Vicky gould and Daniel C.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's a free choice. We are all under attack by Satan and convicted by the Spirit, but we choose.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Some heard Paul preach and started to change their way of thinking. There was a revival in Scotland. Alcoholics heard the preaching. They stopped drinking and the local tavern closed and remained closed for decades. Some continued to study the NT and were changed.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgement. Behaviours change as a result.

 

[Daniel C]

Who is boasting?



No, that is yet another attempt to make those who feel we need to be obedient to God into bad people...it's what OSAS does, and if I am incorrect, please show me where I boasted?

OK, I have commented/answered all your questions now, will you please do the same and answer the few in post 61?

The Apostle Paul is the one stating works justification is boasting,not me. Maybe read the scripture again?

And to answer your question: I think Jesus is talking about his identity and how it relates to the father. Reading the chapter 5 makes it clear

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[renniks]

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God

Exactly as I said, if we receive him and believe, God does the work of salvation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God

Exactly as I said, if we receive him and believe, God does the work of salvation.

Rather, from what you quoted from His Word:
" He gave the right to become children of God"

 

[renniks]

Rather, from what you quoted from His Word:
" He gave the right to become children of God"

Yes, if they received him, he gave them the right.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The Apostle Paul is the one stating works justification is boasting,not me. Maybe read the scripture again?

Please tell me who here thinks works is all it takes for salvation? also, instead of pointing me to scripture, pleas post it here and show me where it makes your point.

And to answer your question: I think Jesus is talking about his identity and how it relates to the father. Reading the chapter 5 makes it clear.

Seriously?

I have no idea how chapter five negates the fact that Christ is meaning just what he says there, but I will put that on my list of replies to that question. We all must, at least as a general rule, do good and not do evil, in order to get to heaven. So please be precise on how chapter 5 changes Christs meaning?

And you missed pertinent questions from post 61, and though I won't ask you again, I will assume you are evading them because the answers would either be as nonsensical as the chapter five comment, or a truthful answer would incriminate you. But maybe you just missed them, the reason I'm offering another chance.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Daniel C]

Please tell me who here thinks works is all it takes for salvation? also, instead of pointing me to scripture, pleas post it here and show me where it makes your point.



Seriously?

I have no idea how chapter five negates the fact that Christ is meaning just what he says there, but I will put that on my list of replies to that question. We all must, at least as a general rule, do good and not do evil, in order to get to heaven. So please be precise on how chapter 5 changes Christs meaning?

And you missed pertinent questions from post 61, and though I won't ask you again, I will assume you are evading them because the answers would either be as nonsensical as the chapter five comment, or a truthful answer would incriminate you. But maybe you just missed them, the reason I'm offering another chance.

So many questions and so scattered. LOL.

Let's keep it simple,I don't believe I can lose my salvation and it's because salvation has been described as the eternal gift of God:

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord


If God takes back the gift he told me I can keep forever,he is a liar.
If I have to work for it,it is not a free gift.
I cannot give back the gift because Gods will is greater than mine.


Therefore I believe salvation is a free gift for those who believe on Christ and cannot lose their salvation.

 

[Vicky gould]

Show me.

And you are saying there is no preacher who teaches that, that you know of? And that you came to those conclusions completely on your own with no input from anyone? You don’t need me to tell you there are many who believe as I do. We are the folks who drive you folks crazy because we actually live and have faith that it is Christ and Christ crucified for our salvation.

It's in the hands of both us and the Lord.
A couple of things. If it is in both our hands then we have room to brag you have made us a poor mans Mary as co-redeemer. If you read what I wrote again you will see I am saying the exact opposite of your claim that it is solely Christ and only Christ that saves.

Who is bragging? You just made yourself co-redeemer it’s in both your hands is about as bragging as you can do dressing it up like your claim is humility and righteousness when the truth is you rob the Lord of part of His Glory.

And what do you make of the following, are we obligated to do good and not evil in order to not be condemned to Hell or are we released from that once saved?

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

I trust that Christ and Christ crucified me and if it did not then there is nothing I can do. When Israel was in the wilderness the tax for running the tabernacle was charged this would eventually become known as the temple tax the Lord was committed to pay by Peter. When they were in the wilderness they were to pay a half shekel. The money the LoRd provided the money to Israel and all they could do was offer it. No more no less. It was all the Lord. Abraham was placed in a state of sleep as if he was dead and the Lord alone walked between the offerings. The Lord did not hold the Lord’s hand. Abraham believed and it was credited to Him as righteousness. Adam and Eve what did they have to do to pass over from death to life? Are we under more of an obligation than them.to be able to pass over from death to life.thats it for answering your questions I appreciate your concern but when it all comes down to it I trust in Hiss Grace and His hands. Thanks and God bless

And considering that, who's hand is doing good in? It appears Christ is saying it's in our hands, as we are the "those" he speaks of. But you tell me who.

 

[Carl Emerson]

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God

Exactly as I said, if we receive him and believe, God does the work of salvation.

Yes but the grace to receive is given by God as is the ear to hear His call to salvation.

 

[Vicky gould]

Is Solomon in heaven, this is for all those who claim it is not entirely Grace. What types of sin did Solomon commit and when did he repent, confess his sin and all the other things you folks say must be done in conjunction with the finished work of Christ for our salvation. Maybe if we actually taught what the truth of those who we place on pedestals we would have an honest view of the scope of what rhe
Lord has done and how true Romans 8 and how merciful our God really is towards men.Solomon built places for false worship I don’t believe he confessed let alone repented. So where is Solomon today? Hundreds of wives and concubines. Does anyone know if he repented and where that is found in Scripture? Thanks

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is Solomon in heaven, this is for all those who claim it is not entirely Grace. What types of sin did Solomon commit and when did he repent, confess his sin and all the other things you folks say must be done in conjunction with the finished work of Christ for our salvation. Maybe if we actually taught what the truth of those who we place on pedestals we would have an honest view of the scope of what rhe
Lord has done and how true Romans 8 and how merciful our God really is towards men.Solomon built places for false worship I don’t believe he confessed let alone repented. So where is Solomon today? Hundreds of wives and concubines. Does anyone know if he repented and where that is found in Scripture? Thanks

According to all Scripture, in perfect harmony with all of Yahuweh's Revealed Plan and Purpose,
he (Solomon) is where King David is - in the grave.

Yahuweh knows if he ever repented, etc ......

We only know what Yahuweh grants us from heaven to know, as His Word Says Clearly.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, if they received him, he gave them the right.

Just because they were given the right to become sons of Yahuweh, does not mean that they did so.
(at least not in English)

Any idea what the older languages say ?