Salvation Cannot be Lost

[FreeGrace2]

Will the Holy Spirit live in a defiled temple?
No.

Don't you even read anything I post? I explained WHERE the Holy Spirit lives. In the REgenerated born again human spirit, the nature that CANNOT sin.

The only difference between your view and mine is that the believer becomes TRI-chotomous at faith in Christ. You have the erroneous view that the sinful human nature is removed. But I've proven that to be totally untrue.

2 Cor 12:20-21
20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

The only thing that's missing from this text is any suggestion from Paul that such people aren't saved believers.

Sinners don't have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Says you. The Bible says otherwise. I've given you direct statements from Paul and Isaiah that refutes your opinion.

They never repented of sin and were baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
They are defiled.

Yes, sin does defile. That's WHY the believer MUST confess their sins, for cleansing and restoration of fellowship with the Lord.

When a spouse offends the other spouse, the ONLY WAY to restore fellowship between them is confession and repentance. Same for the spiritual life.

He indwells every vessel that has turned from sin. (Acts 2:38)

Go ahead and stick with the transitional period of the early church. And see how that works out for you.

Rather, I have moved forward from that transitional period and I believe what Paul stated in Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

"Works of the law" would refer to such things as turning from sin, obviously.

You need to move on from the transitional period of the early church, and join the matured church.

Quit sinning, permanently. (Acts 2:38)

I see you're adding words to Scripture, again.

It starts with a real repentance from sin.

What you seem to fail to grasp is that there are a myriad of sins that must be turned from. Do you have any idea what "spiritual growth" means and involves? It seems not.

Spiritual growth is demonstrated by the believer's life being more and more Christ-like.

Your erroneous view has the believer BECOMING Christ in the sense of sinlessness.

But since you deny that the believer will have his sinful nature until death, you're not going to understand any of this.

Just as Peter prophesied on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38.

You really DO need to move on and join the matured church.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"This verse teaches that the born again spirit cannot sin. Because it is "born of God". This is what being born again is about."

"Whosoever" is more than spirit.

It appears you're just not focusing or understanding what I post. "whosoever" refers to any person. That involves the WHOLE person: body, soul and spirit (if a believer), and body and soul if an unbeliever.

The "body of corruption" is the vessel of the Holy Ghost...after repentance from all sin.

No. And you have no evidence of this from Scripture. Only your opinions.

If the Holy Ghost was in them they wouldn't need to struggle with sin.

lol. Paul himself struggled. So your whole view is in error.

Remember, it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
God always provides the escapes fro temptation.

What you seem to forget or reject is that this is a choice. Providing an escape doesn't solve the problem. The believer must TAKE the escape.

As Eph 5 lets us know, by refusing the works of the flesh, only the Spirit can remain.
No 50% or 70% or 99% Spirit and some flesh too.

I flatly reject your dichotomous view of the believer.

If we obey Peter's command from Acts 2:38, we will be filled by the Holy Ghost if we turn from sin.

You really do need to move on from the transitional period of the early church and join the matured church.

As "God heareth not sinners", (John 9:31), only the sinless can ask God for the Spirit. (Luke 11:13)

Wrong. God doesn't hear believers when they are out of fellowship due to sin. But these words are just totally foreign to your unbiblical ideas.

But these words are totally biblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
JLB

All you need to know is that those who are given eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

"does not obey" includes "does not believe". Look it up for yourself.

And 2 verses are very clear about who will be condemned (God's wrath).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

"have not believed" means the same as "has NEVER believed".

Therefore, those who HAVE believed will NOT be condemned.

If the Lord commands us not to lie, but we continue to lie anyway, is that obeying or disobeying Him?

all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone

So then, your conclusion is that Christ didn't die for the sin of lying??? Prove it.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

OK, let's just study the first 2 words here.

The word "cowardly" is someone who lacks FAITH.

The word "unbelieving" is someone who doesn't believe.

They are the SAME.

John's point is clear. He is, in fact, emphasizing the fact that ONLY those who never believed will be cast into the lake of fire.

And this is affirmed by what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 and who will be cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20:15.

Jn 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Rev 20:15 - Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Clear.as.crystal.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Amen! I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works which "follow" believing. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is "apeitheo" and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." So in John 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to refuse to believe in the Son.

Amen! Well said! Thanks.

 

[Phil W]

Don't you even read anything I post? I explained WHERE the Holy Spirit lives. In the REgenerated born again human spirit, the nature that CANNOT sin.

You are advocating the doctrine of "split personality".
It don't fly.
2 Cor 5:17 nullifies your POV..." Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"Old things are passed away".
That includes the old nature.

The only difference between your view and mine is that the believer becomes TRI-chotomous at faith in Christ. You have the erroneous view that the sinful human nature is removed. But I've proven that to be totally untrue.

Is that Greek for "split personality"?
You have 'proved' nothing.

2 Cor 12:20-21
20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
The only thing that's missing from this text is any suggestion from Paul that such people aren't saved believers.

It doesn't need to be written to be understood.

Says you. The Bible says otherwise. I've given you direct statements from Paul and Isaiah that refutes your opinion.

I challenge you to do so!

Yes, sin does defile. That's WHY the believer MUST confess their sins, for cleansing and restoration of fellowship with the Lord.

What is the point of confession if the evil half of you will just commit more sin later?
You advocate part-time Christianity.
Actually it is OT Judaism...sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, over and over endlessly.

Go ahead and stick with the transitional period of the early church. And see how that works out for you.

So far, blessed and holy.
I guess your transition did away with that aspect of being IN CHRIST.

Rather, I have moved forward from that transitional period and I believe what Paul stated in Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

The early church never advocated circumcision or dietary laws.

"Works of the law" would refer to such things as turning from sin, obviously.

You are defending your doctrine at the cost of defending freedom from wickedness.

You need to move on from the transitional period of the early church, and join the matured church.

Don't you mean "Deny your repentance and start freely sinning again"?
I want nothing to do with your version of the body of Christ.

I see you're adding words to Scripture, again.

What is your doctrine's definition of 'repentance'?

What you seem to fail to grasp is that there are a myriad of sins that must be turned from. Do you have any idea what "spiritual growth" means and involves? It seems not.

In your "church" sin doesn't really matter, so who cares?

Spiritual growth is demonstrated by the believer's life being more and more Christ-like.

Your erroneous view has the believer BECOMING Christ in the sense of sinlessness.

What a waste of time if you already are guaranteed eternal life.

But since you deny that the believer will have his sinful nature until death, you're not going to understand any of this.

I believe one has a sinful nature till death, but I also believe that death happens at our "immersion" into Christ's death.

]

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are advocating the doctrine of "split personality".

You are as wrong as can be.

For you to be correct, you're going to have to argue that Jesus had a split personality then.

It don't fly.

It sure doesn't. Jesus was both fully man and fully God, and He had NO "split personality".

Likewise, the believer, who is described in the Bible as being born AGAIN, or RE-generated, is trichotomous; body, soul and spirit.

And that doesn't make a believer a split personality.

2 Cor 5:17 nullifies your POV..." Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"Old things are passed away".
That includes the old nature.

That's just your own opinion of that verse. But what you don't have is any actual evidence that the old nature has passed away.

And I've proven that believers still sin by a number of verses, none of which you've addressed.

I said:
"2 Cor 12:20-21
20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
The only thing that's missing from this text is any suggestion from Paul that such people aren't saved believers."

It doesn't need to be written to be understood.

Now that's a novel defense, huh. Rather, it's only your own extremely biased view of things.

Again, I've proven from Paul's, Isaiah, and other writers of Scripture that they had no illusions about their own sinful natures.

I said:
"I've given you direct statements from Paul and Isaiah that refutes your opinion."

I challenge you to do so!

Did you not understand the meaning of "I've GIVEN YOU direct statements"? Already a done deal.

So you are once again proving that you don't bother reading other posts. But that doesn't seem to stop you from making comments about the posts you aren't reading.

What is the point of confession if the evil half of you will just commit more sin later?

You're really having a hard time grasping the concept, I see. I already explained the exchange between Jesus and Peter in John 13, when Jesus was washing the feet of His disciples. He was demonstrating humility, but when He got to Peter, Peter would have nothing to do with it.

5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.
6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”
7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”
8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”
10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”
11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

The red words speak of loss of fellowship if Jesus isn't allowed to wash his feet. Certainly can't mean loss of salvation, because the green words prove that those who are clean from having a bath only need their feet washed. Recall the fact that the paths the people walked on were the paths that the domestic animals walked on. Feces everywhere. So it was NECESSARY for feet to be washed, in order to avoid offending those you would visit.

The blue words from Peter show his confusion by asking for another bath, even though he was already clean.

And the purple words indicate who was unsaved at the Last Supper; Judas.

In Jesus' day, the bath cleansed the person. But after walking "in the world", their feet would get dirty and needed to be cleaned.

Today, the believer is clean (saved), but after walking "in the world", need to be cleansed from the effect of walking in the world.

You advocate part-time Christianity.

You advocate nonsense.

Actually it is OT Judaism...sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, over and over endlessly.

This proves your failure to understand the meaning of fellowship with the Lord, even though it's a solid biblical concept.

1 John 1-
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

2 Cor 13:14 - May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 Cor 1:9 - God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

You can't possibly understand these verses, given the comments you make.

You are defending your doctrine at the cost of defending freedom from wickedness.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Don't you mean "Deny your repentance and start freely sinning again"?

Of course I don't. But you don't read the posts of others before commenting on what you have no idea.

I want nothing to do with your version of the body of Christ.

Your version is totally unbiblical.

What is your doctrine's definition of 'repentance'?

The Greek word literally means "to change the mind". We see an example of this in the prodigal son, when he "came to his senses". Following repentance, we see confession of his sins, and his return home reflects fellowship restored.

In your "church" sin doesn't really matter, so who cares?

Why do you make such stupid comments about things you have absolutely no clue about?

I said:
"Spiritual growth is demonstrated by the believer's life being more and more Christ-like."

What a waste of time if you already are guaranteed eternal life.

Wow. So spiritual growth seems to be a waste of time, huh. Well, the Bible commands it of believers, not that you'd know, of course, since along with not reading the posts of others, you haven't been reading the Bible either. As evidenced by how much ignorance of Scripture you keep demonstrating.

2 Pet 3:18 - But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

1 Pet 2:2 - Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,

I believe one has a sinful nature till death, but I also believe that death happens at our "immersion" into Christ's death.

You are free to believe any old thing you want to.

But I believe the Bible and not your opinions, which are far from the Bible.

 

[JLB777]

Amen! I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works which "follow" believing.

We are saved by obeying the Gospel.


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17


Paul expounds upon what happens to those who do not obey the Gospel.

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9




JLB

 

[JLB777]

All you need to know is that those who are given eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

All you need to know is, he who says “I have eternal life” and does not keep His commandments is a liar.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him. 1 John 2:4



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29




JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

We are saved by obeying the Gospel.

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

Paul expounds upon what happens to those who do not obey the Gospel.

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

JLB

*We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

 

[JLB777]

All you need to know is that those who are given eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We are saved by obeying the Gospel.

We are saved by believing the gospel.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

So says the Bible.

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

Which reminds me about "everlasting destruction", or what the Bible refers to as "condemnation":

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

"have not believed" means "NEVER EVER believed".

So, once a person believes, from that MOMENT on, they shall never perish.

Oh yeah, Jesus said that, too.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace2]

All you need to know is, he who says “I have eternal life” and does not keep His commandments is a liar.

OK. Yep. There's a lot of liars among Christians. Just like those who believe in Jesus but don't believe what He says, like yourself.

Jesus says recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

You say recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

You, sir, are a liar. Plain and simple.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him. 1 John 2:4

The Bible saw you coming.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

This is about fellowship, obviously.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Oh, back to your lifestyle salvation nonsense.

Just back up to v.24 and read the FACTS about those who believe:

1. they HAS eternal life.
2. they HAVE PASSED from death to life.
3. they WILL NOT BE condemned.

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"All you need to know is that those who are given eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

View attachment 264892

So, you believe that Jesus is just plain wrong, huh.

Well, sir, you are the liar. Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, because Jesus said so.

Your opinion that recipients of eternal life CAN perish is the LIE, LIE, LIE.

 

[Phil W]

All you need to know is that those who are given eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Are murderers, adulterers, liars, and thieves "following Him"?
Jesus' sheep "follow Him".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Are murderers, adulterers, liars, and thieves "following Him"?

Great question, actiually.

King David, as a mature believer, committed rape, and then covered it up with murder.

Jesus' sheep "follow Him".

Can you differentiate between a description and a policy statement?

If john 10:27 is just a description of what all of Jesus' sheep DO, then why can't you explain WHY the Bible is full of commands to follow Him?

 

[Phil W]

Great question, actiually.
King David, as a mature believer, committed rape, and then covered it up with murder.

As a member of the OT, David was afforded the atonements offered under the Law of Moses.
He was also not able to crucify the flesh with Christ, or be buried with Him or be "raised with Him to walk in newness of life".
He walked in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit like we can now.

Can you differentiate between a description and a policy statement
If john 10:27 is just a description of what all of Jesus' sheep DO, then why can't you explain WHY the Bible is full of commands to follow Him?

Your made up man's wisdom is man's futile attempt to keep walking in sin.
Jesus' sheep DO follow Him, and they will keep on doing so because they heed the exhortations and admonitions provided by God's prophets.
They have crucified the old man and it's nature and received a new one that loves God above all else and their neighbor as them selves.
Men can't claim to be "following Jesus" when they kill, steal, and lie.
Sin is the difference between believers and false believers.
Believers obey Jesus and His Father all the time.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As a member of the OT, David was afforded the atonements offered under the Law of Moses.

He still disproves your claim.

He was also not able to crucify the flesh with Christ, or be buried with Him or be "raised with Him to walk in newness of life".

Irrelevant.

He walked in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit like we can now.

Then you don't know the Bible.

Psa 51:11 - Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Your made up man's wisdom is man's futile attempt to keep walking in sin.

If you seriously think I have been attempting to keep walking in sin, you are having some very serious comprehension problems. You couldn't be farther from the truth.

Jesus' sheep DO follow Him, and they will keep on doing so because they heed the exhortations and admonitions provided by God's prophets.

Yet, all the exhortations, commands and rebukes towards sinful believers totally smashes your opinions.

They have crucified the old man and it's nature and received a new one that loves God above all else and their neighbor as them selves.

The challenge for all believers is to USE that new nature rather than the old one.

But, of course, you have denied what the Bible teaches about that.

Men can't claim to be "following Jesus" when they kill, steal, and lie.
Sin is the difference between believers and false believers.

No, sin is the difference between a believer IN fellowship with the Lord, cleansed from his sins by confession, and walking by the Spirit, and a believer OUT OF fellowship with the Lord and grieving and/or quenching the Spirit.

Believers obey Jesus and His Father all the time.

Phil 3:13 - Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead

So, what exactly has Paul not yet taken hold of?

I've already proven that opinion wrong.

 

[Phil W]

He still disproves your claim.

Hardly.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant only to those who don't believe all that happens at water baptism...into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.

Then you don't know the Bible.
Psa 51:11 - Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

The Spirit certainly wasn't in him while he sinned.

If you seriously think I have been attempting to keep walking in sin, you are having some very serious comprehension problems. You couldn't be farther from the truth.

It is the only possible outcome of your doctrine of eternal security granted regardless of if you are following Christ or not.

Yet, all the exhortations, commands and rebukes towards sinful believers totally smashes your opinions.

You prefer a rudderless existence in Christianity?
Without guidance?

The challenge for all believers is to USE that new nature rather than the old one.

As believers are aware that the "old things" have passed away, (2 Cor 5:17), it is easy to see when the devil foists something desirable from the past on them.

But, of course, you have denied what the Bible teaches about that.

It is you who denies 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"All things are become new" includes the old nature.

No, sin is the difference between a believer IN fellowship with the Lord, cleansed from his sins by confession, and walking by the Spirit, and a believer OUT OF fellowship with the Lord and grieving and/or quenching the Spirit.

Believers adhere to the exhortations you so lightly esteem.
They don't disobey God.
They are never out of fellowship with God.

Phil 3:13 - Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead
So, what exactly has Paul not yet taken hold of?

It is written in verse 12..."If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."
He had yet to attain the resurrection from the dead.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hardly.

A good place to stop with your post. You're just not facing reality.

So let's review your claim. You claim that believers have a new sinless nature, and have lost their sinful nature. And thus, do not sin any more.

I'm going to provide some verses that shreds your claim to pieces.

Gal 5:13 - You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

Paul identifies his audience as saved believers at the beginning of the verse. Then he instructs them to NOT USE THEIR FREEDOM to indulge the flesh (sin). How is that possible is your view were correct? It just isn't possible.

v.16 - So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Another verse you cannot explain from your view. If your claim were true, it wouldn't be possible to "gratify the desires of the flesh".

v.17 - For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

Very clearly, Paul lays out the struggle for EVERY BELIEVER. We STILL have the "flesh", which is our sinful nature. The Holy Spirit functions from our new nature and is in conflict with our flesh. Plain and simple.

Gal 6:1 - Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

This isn't evangelism. The "someone" here is a fellow believer and mature believers are instructed to restore that person gently. But in your claim, it would not be possible for a believer to be "caught in a sin" in the first place.

v.3 - If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves.

This verse directly applies to YOU.

Eph 3:8 - Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ,

Paul's testimony proves that your claim is wrong. Your claim would make ALL believers equal, because they are sinless. But Paul says differently.

Eph 4:1 - As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

Why would Paul urge any believer to "live a life worthy of their calling" if all believers don't sin anymore? You cannot answer that.

v.17 - So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.

Why would Paul tell sinless believers to "no longer live as the Gentiles (unbelievers) do?

v.22 - You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Why would any sinless believer need to "put of their old self"?? Hm?

v.25-31
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
26 “In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

None of these commands would be necessary if your claim were true.

in fact, such behavior would be IMPOSSIBLE if your claim were true.

Eph 5:3-4
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

Why would Paul need to tell sinless believers that there "must not be even a hint of immorality, impurity or greed"??

And why would Paul tell these sinless believers what else there shouldn't be among them?

You see, your claim has tremendous holes in it.

v.6 - Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

You have been deceived with empty words, such as "believers no longer sin". And notice the result of your deceit.

v.11 - Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

This is what I have been doing with you.

v.15 - Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise,

All believers MUST BE very careful how they live. How is that even relevant if ALL believers do not sin any more??

v.17 - Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

How could Paul write this to sinless believers? He woudn't have.

v.18 - Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,

This is a command for believers. But totally unnecessary if believers do not sin.

Phil 1:27 - Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel

If your claim were true, then none of this would need to be said, because it would be automatic for these sinless believers.

There is NO NEED to ever tell a sinless person how to "conduct themselves" since they are conducting themselves perfectly (sinlessly).

So, you see, your claim is in error, unbiblical.

If you try to argue that these verses are directly to unsaved people, you will just prove how disconnected from truth you are.