What are America's "Traditional Values"...?

[Neogaia777]

Our current system, because of not only the way it is designed but just because of the way it is, and always was (capitalism, etc) leads to less and less people being able to get or become rich or wealthy, and of those semi-rich getting more and more in number from among the ridiculously rich, etc, and getting and becoming poorer and poorer overall and greater in number from among the ridiculously rich day by day, and of course, more poor becoming greater in number and getting poorer day by day also...

It's not sustainable, and never has been, and never will be, especially long term... Eventually there will not be enough people with enough wealth to buy goods, which is when it goes under or goes bankrupt...

I heard it described as a tribe or tribal people, who one day, say, the hunters, had the oh so brilliant idea, that instead of just sharing the kill among everyone, holding or keeping it back and charging other people or members of the tribe or making them trade or give him goods and services in exchange for being able to have some meat to eat... Then of course this led to the basket weavers doing it, the tent makers, etc, etc, and many people got left behind, especially the elderly, and those who just were not able to capitalize of anything they could do themselves, eventually it always ended with, less and less people able to buy or trade goods, and with only a very, very few "having it all", and an increasingly greater and greater number of people going or doing without, this also led to thievery, poverty, crime, war, rebellion, etc, the need for the very wealthy to have security, etc, etc, etc...

Until eventually the system would collapse and fall under the weight of itself, with no one left with enough to buy or get or trade with or from those who "had it all" basically, who were, at that point very, very few in number, so you can just guess or imagine what happens to and with all of them at that point, I'll give you one clue or aspect of it, usually the very few having it all are forcibly dispossessed of their now extreme wealth, by the now much more numerous few having next to nothing, chaos basically, Killings and murder everywhere, and some very very bad things going on and happening, all because some "genius" found a way in the beginning of it to capitalize off of what he had and could get, etc, which caused everybody to start doing it, etc...

It was actually called a "mental disorder or disease" in the film I watched on it, "whittica" or something like that... Anyway,

Anyway, before that happened everyone was well taken care of and it was 100% sustainable and no one got left behind, but not afterwards, that all changed afterwards...

And I'm truly sorry, but I just don't think that very many of you are really seeing the "big picture" here... "Capitalism" is doomed to fall and fail...

In Bible times, God had a system that worked with this problem within the nation of Israel with the "Jubilee" which would reset the system every 49-50 years or so, but we don't have anything like that today, which is why it fails...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

There will always be a market for goods and consumers. Most people are too spoiled by conveniences to perform the activities that would lessen their expenses and improve their health and diet.

It’s easier to go to the store than to spend the day preparing your backyard for an organic vegetable garden. Takeout is easier than meal planning and cooking at home. Medicine is quicker than natural herbal remedies. Chemical cleaning and body products are simple purchases as opposed to making your own. And so on.

If most people kept a budget and tracked their spending, they’d see where their money goes. I do everything on the list (and more) save the garden. But I worked on a farm to learn homesteading.

Convenience is meaningless if its killing you.

~Bella

 

[Neogaia777]

There will always be a market for goods and consumers. Most people are too spoiled by conveniences to perform the activities that would lessen their expenses and improve their health and diet.

It’s easier to go to the store than to spend the day preparing your backyard for an organic vegetable garden. Takeout is easier than meal planning and cooking at home. Medicine is quicker than natural herbal remedies. Chemical cleaning and body products are simple purchases as opposed to making your own. And so on.

If most people kept a budget and tracked their spending, they’d see where their money goes. I do everything on the list (and more) save the garden. But I worked on a farm to learn homesteading.

Convenience is meaningless if its killing you.

~Bella

I don't think you understand what I am saying, people (who can) will do those things as they get to having less and less wealth, but my point is/was, they will always be going toward having less and less wealth, and those with less wealth becoming more in number over time, until it collapses or buckles under the weight, and the very few left that are still rich still, becoming less and less in number over time, will have a rebellion on their hands the likes of which we have never seen before and that the world has never experienced before, when it gets "so bad"...

It is inevitable with any capitalist system, (that doesn't have a way of resetting itself like it did in ancient Israel, etc)...

It is inevitable...

Again, the "big picture", can't see the forest through/for the trees, etc...

And if you or those like you can't see that, can't see that it is due to a mental disorder or disease that started way, way back, and if you can't see it/that/this, then, no offense, but your blind, but maybe you'll remember what I said when the whole world plunges into chaos, unless something is done about it before then of course...



God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Right now the world's wealth is "debt" and they are trading debt right now...

Now, how long do you think that can last...?

And the fact that it wasn't all that way, not too long ago, just further proves my point...

Anyway, How long do you think it/this can last...?

People think they are rich and have wealth, when really all they have is "debt", it's the greatest "deception" ever...

You really think it can last...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

will have a rebellion on their hands the likes of which we have never seen before and that the world has never experienced before, when it gets "so bad"...

What a cheerful picture. Numbers are meaningless when weapons are involved. I predict a bloody massacre and public examples of the consequences of treason. Maybe a hanging or the guillotine!

And if you or those like you can't see that, can't see that it is due to a mental disorder or disease that started way, way back, and if you can't see it/that/this, then, no offense, but your blind, but maybe you'll remember what I said when the whole world plunges into chaos, unless something is done about it before then of course...

My ear is tuned to God. Not fear-mongers, conspiracy theories, or the rest. I’m not blind. I’m not afraid. And I’m not stuck. That’s the difference.

~Bella

 

[Neogaia777]

What a cheerful picture. Numbers are meaningless when weapons are involved. I predict a bloody massacre and public examples of the consequences of treason. Maybe a hanging or the guillotine!

There is still some time and a chance to change it all, or turn it all around right now, which is why I try to raise the/and alarm, not to spread fear, but only the truth...

But some very drastic changes are going to need to be made though...

And before we run out of time...

My ear is tuned to God.

So is mine.

Not fear-mongers, conspiracy theories, or the rest.

I'm not trying to spread fear, but only and "awakening" to the "truth"...

And I'm not a "conspiracy theorist" either...

I’m not blind. I’m not afraid. And I’m not stuck. That’s the difference.

~Bella

So you think, so we all think...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

There is still some time and a chance to change it all, which is why I try to raise the/and alarm, not to spread fear, but only the truth...

Each person has the Holy Spirit living within them. He is our guide. We are told not to believe every spirit but try them. If you are proclaiming a word from God it would pass scrutiny.

I shared an experience I had this morning while praying. I hadn’t spoken to the person for over a year. He has given me a word for her more than once and alerted me about problems.

~Bella

 

[Neogaia777]

Each person has the Holy Spirit living within them. He is our guide. We are told not to believe every spirit but try them. If you are proclaiming a word from God it would pass scrutiny.

I shared an experience I had this morning while praying. I hadn’t spoken to the person for over a year. He has given me a word for her more than once and alerted me about problems.

~Bella

That's great, but, and please forgive me for this "please", but, what is your point...?

I just wish a lot of words from God were not all about warnings and problems sometimes...

Glad you had that experience though, and I hope, and will praying for you and your friend and their family, K...

I've been there, a couple of years ago I helped take care of my grandpa on in-home hospice, stayed with him etc, and it greatly affected our family... Took him months to die...

Both my mother and father died before I was 20 also... I had to help take care of my dying mother also, my father's was sudden... (I'm 40 now)...

My family has seen and gone through a lot of death...

Let's just say "I've had a life" to be sure... And so has a lot of my surviving family...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

That's great, but, and please forgive me for this "please", but, what is your point...?

The point is validation. If you’re the lone one hearing the message and no one confirms it you should question if you’re really hearing from God. Spirit testifies to spirit.

There are people on this site who operate in gifts of wisdom and discernment. You’re talking to one. I hear a lot of things. But that isn’t always the Lord talking.

Do you question what you hear or just assume it’s God?

Thank you.

~Bella

 

[Neogaia777]

The point is validation. If you’re the lone one hearing the message and no one confirms it you should question if you’re really hearing from God. Spirit testifies to spirit.

There are people on this site who operate in gifts of wisdom and discernment. You’re talking to one. I hear a lot of things. But that isn’t always the Lord talking.

Do you question what you hear or just assume it’s God?

Thank you.

~Bella

The Spirit Himself confirms most things that I hear, and when He doesn't, it's usually me...

Why do you ask...?

And, part of what I was talking about earlier and why I am alone a lot, (by choice) is because I've been diagnosed with schizophrenia due to what I hear, and no, it's not always God, for it's sometimes the enemy and sometimes me as well...

But I can always and at any time go to the Spirit for confirmation, if I need to, and if I cannot tell what's what, and/or who's who, and who's what, etc, I can always go to the Spirit for confirmation or clarification, but most of the time I can tell who's who and what's what now, most of the time anyway...

Why do you ask...?

What I have been saying on here and in this forum thread right now, was something God and the Spirit or God already revealed to me quite some time back now, that I just "know now" because of Him/Them, etc... And He'll (The Holy Spirit) confirm it that if I need or needed Him to, but I really don't need Him to, cause I know it was from Him a while back now so...

But I can go to Him (for that) (or "whatever" really) at any time though...

God Bless!

 

[bèlla]

I ask because we’re told to.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. —1 John 4:1

 

[Neogaia777]

I ask because we’re told to.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. —1 John 4:1

There is no need for me to ask about something He's already revealed to me or confirmed already, but He's always there when I need to, etc, and I do have to ask a lot sometimes also, but that asking usually has already happened and is already "past tense" before I ever come on here most of the time, etc...

We talk or have already talked about it already before, before I come and share on here most of the time IOW's...

But feel free to test what I am saying if you like and all you like, and I do in fact encourage you all to very much greatly as a matter of fact...

I wouldn't want you to ever not do that IOW's...

God Bless!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Right now the world's wealth is "debt" and they are trading debt right now...

Now, how long do you think that can last...?

And the fact that it wasn't all that way, not too long ago, just further proves my point...

Anyway, How long do you think it/this can last...?

People think they are rich and have wealth, when really all they have is "debt", it's the greatest "deception" ever...

You really think it can last...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

We are to make the best of it until it fails (it's the only game in town).

Luke 16:8-9

8 "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."

 

[loveofourlord]

Self-reliant people don’t expect other people to assist them, find the answers, or make their lot easier. They’re boot strappers and very independent.

~Bella

so self reliant transltes to sucessful which often has nothing to do with who someone is or what they do....so ironicly not self reliant.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Well, yes we're interacting, but we arent diving deep into a college level discussion of anything. Even less are we producing work, which I think is essential for deep learning. These things can potentially occur online in the free space, but I think dabbling online typically pales in comparison to having an actual teacher and students who've committed to a course of learning.

We aren't engaged in the same thing but that doesn't preclude others from being engaged in the way you suggest. As the financial cost of college has become so prohibitive, I think a low cost alternative is necessary. I also would expect that the competition would force colleges to become more reasonable in their pricing. As it is government backed loan programs have enabled colleges to highly overcharge by convincing their customers to borrow from the students future with the return for that future income not commensurate with the investment being made.

 

[com7fy8]

Capitalism

I think capitalism can have some values attached to it, that can effect you and your life. For example, if you value owning things and controlling them, it is possible you also can see people as being for you to possess . . . and use for what you want.

This is impersonal . . . with focus mainly on what you want to get, instead of first valuing simply loving and caring for any and all people. Getting a hold of certain people can be impersonal, possessing, not really loving. We see how ones supposedly fall in love with one another, but really they have fallen in love with the things . . . the dreams . . . they hope to use somebody to get!!

And this is contrary to how Jesus says we need to deny ourselves > Luke 9:23 > and take up our cross daily and follow Jesus. And if we first seek God's kingdom and learn from Jesus > "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

And so . . . as I understand Bella has said > you will be depending first on Jesus. And you will have rest for your soul. And you will be on a phone line with Him, and this can do more than her six A.M. till midnight phone company which Bella has had.

I have pain in my heart due to my desire for others

But, as you say, below, you more or less do not trust them. We need to trust Jesus, then submit to how He personally guides us with people; all the time is best.

yet it is also along with my knowing a few things more or better now, like you, me, or I can't trust most of them for starters,

And possibly . . . while you are still maybe being capitalistic with people > treating them like obstacles or objects to use . . . this is impersonal . . . not in God's love personally loving, personally caring for each person . . . ready for love with any person, but ready to discern if and how each person should be trusted.

While you are not discovering the love sharing which does satisfy > I recommend feeding on God's word and seeing what He values are for relating with other people. And talk about this, discuss this here in the forums, maybe. There are values which work for getting closer to God and with this into sharing which can minister God's grace to you.

We need to not depend on people; yet, God has His children who can minister God's own grace to make us closer to God and sharing and caring as His family with others who are finding out how to love. But . . . again . . . God makes this work; yes, He has children whom He includes in fulfilling one another, but it all is in submission to God >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

"Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:9-10)

These include mature seniors and couples who have been married for decades. So, do you share with mature Christian people? Or, are you wishing and fishing mainly for ones who would be peers? There's more scripture about what we need to value, in order to get closer to God and find out how to relate in God's love with one another. If you find we have gotten somewhere with this, so far . . . we can get into more. But you need to personally share with ones who are getting somewhere, and feed on their example ! ! !

but that does not take away the desire or need I feel for them, or wanting some people in my life, etc...?

You certainly don't need peers who you do not trust . . . I mean, if God knows you should not be trusting them. So, if they are in the not-to-be-trusted category, I would let them go, as far as expectations of their knowing how to love is concerned. But care for them in prayer and get sharing with mature seniors and couples and proven ministerial people who actually minister for you to get more real with God and love. You can tell if someone is ministering to you, like this.

But my experience is this comes first with being honest with God and trusting how He deeply corrects us to be His way in love, then discover how He has us learning how to love and relate.

The number-one value, then, maybe we could say, is seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then discover how our Heavenly Father takes care of your personal sharing with people.

And again > God is personally loving, not just using people. He is ready always for tender and intimate sharing, but we humans are being impersonal somehow, including maybe picking and choosing who we prefer to love . . . and use . . . and possess. And this impersonal insensitive way keeps us elsewhere than in tender and intimate sharing with God.

Here, then, is a value of God's >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So . . . to me this shows that God's love is gentle and quiet. God is never silent, then, but quiet, and people miss out on sharing with Him, by letting noisy stuff in them get the better of them . . . and their attention.

So . . . don't go along with the noisy stuff, but be still and trusting God to deeply bring you to all He has for us all as His family. The Bible gives plenty about this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I wishing to discuss what was America's original true "American Dream" or original values, (dreams) (goals) etc...

And who or what politicians or political parties or individuals are still true, and are still staying true to that, etc...

God Bless!

Look into the money involved, if it is something that can be found.
i.e. the corporations/ governments/ involved that financed the 'original' operations and activities etc .....
I think it will be readily apparent that the "original values, (dreams) (goals) etc..." of the financiers was (and remained) ungodly. (NOT that all the immigrants were the same, no - but they did not finance the trip and establishment of 'government' as far as I know)

 

[com7fy8]

I think it will be readily apparent that the "original values, (dreams) (goals) etc..." of the financiers was (and remained) ungodly.

The Revolutionary War, I have read, I think, was financed by wealthy Colony people . . . by loan. And fighters paid their lives.

According to how I piece together things I have read and been told > which is questionable, for all I know > anyone who knows better is welcome to correct and improve on this >

In England . . . after Protestants had political power > there was social ostracizing of religious people who did not conform to the ones with the most political power. So, in my opinion, the ones at the top were not about Christian loving, even though our Apostle Peter clearly says >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Leading by example, possibly, was not a value of whoever had the power!!

But > the ones persecuted did not stay and stand for Jesus, but ones of them went on the ships to America. To me, it seems that might not have been really trusting God, either. But they might have been mainly motivated by financial whatever.

Anyway, once people got established in the Colonies . . . according to one source I read . . . so I won't guarantee this > religious groups formed their own towns and territories and ones living there had to conform. And if you went into the wrong neighborhood, you could get killed.

So, it is possible there were ones not into Christianity, but maintaining their lives they wanted to live. And capitalism has something to do with you being able to possess things and people for what you want, without others interfering. And, of course, there can be value of treating others nicely . . . so they don't interfere with how you live selfishly.

And Jesus did not use violence and bloodshed to get what He wanted, or to protect even Himself >

"If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews;" (in John 18:36)

But there always have been the gentle and humble ones who have loved any and all people, who have valued not just using people for what they want.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Revolutionary War, I have read, I think, was financed by wealthy Colony people . . . by loan. And fighters paid their lives.

Likewise, it was reported long ago that the rev war did not actually do what people were told it did. Apparently the banks and corporations/business CONTINUED paying taxes TO THE QUEEN (this apparently never stopped).... even today..... and the people, the common people, simply were led to believe they were set free from that power.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Capitalism does not level the playing field...

It quite obviously (see the last 100 years?!) UNlevels the 'playing field' AGAINST the poor, humble, true, honest businesses/business men/ common people.
i.e. apparently no "-ism', including capital crime, is "Righteous".(Godly).