The Reprobate Doctrine

[Saint Steven]

For those who don't know,the reprobate doctrine states that the creation (Mankind) can be cut-off from Gods grace before a persons physical death,so we do not have until our last breath on earth to reconcile with God and be born again,we can be given over to a reprobate mind and rejected by God whilst still alive.

I don't think that's how it works. No one is "cut-off from Gods grace". I think reprobation is a tool God uses to accelerate conversion/repentance, rather than prevent it.

Luke 15:4-7
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

 

[Dave L]

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,” Romans 9:21–23 (KJV 1900)

 

[Daniel C]

I don't think that's how it works. No one is "cut-off from Gods grace". I think reprobation is a tool God uses to accelerate conversion/repentance, rather than prevent it.

Luke 15:4-7
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Well Steven I can say after going over Romans 1 many times I don't see how it's possible for ''haters of God'' who have ''been given over to a rejected/reprobate mind'' to be reconciled with God after that point. Is it possible for the higest to do that? Yes! Is it likely for him to do that? Based on what I see in Romans 1 no. Why reject them to only bring them back later?

In fact that seems exactly why Paul is writing this doctrine-that some cannot be reconciled with God.

We know Paul was an Evangelist so he would have spoken about how some can be converted and those who cannot.

 

[Daniel C]

It's very possible, but we don't know when in fact it happens, or to whom. The problem that happens when people teach this loudly is they also tend to preach that it definitively happened to X class of people today (which they conveniently hate), when Scripture makes no such claim. Since God saves sinners of almost every kind (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) and is in the business of bringing vile people back to him (Luke 15), and since we are ambassadors of the message of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:20) it is not our place to try and guess who today is reprobate, let alone preach it. Rather, we are to do what we can to bring as many people into the Kingdom as possible.

Well you say that but Romans 1 gives us a pretty good guideline.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well Steven I can say after going over Romans 1 many times I don't see how it's possible for ''haters of God'' who have ''been given over to a rejected/reprobate mind'' to be reconciled with God after that point. Is it possible for the higest to do that? Yes! Is it likely for him to do that? Based on what I see in Romans 1 no. Why reject them to only bring them back later?

In fact that seems exactly why Paul is writing this doctrine-that some cannot be reconciled with God.

We know Paul was an Evangelist so he would have spoken about how some can be converted and those who cannot.

I don't think they are being rejected, but rather left to their own devices. Or as we used to say, "stew in their own juice", as it were. The ultimate aim being to bring them back. The Prodigal Son is a good example.

Luke 15:17
“When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!

 

[Daniel C]

I don't think they are being rejected, but rather left to their own devices. Or as we used to say, "stew in their own juice", as it were. The ultimate aim being to bring them back. The Prodigal Son is a good example.

Luke 15:17
“When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!

Well it says reprobate mind. What does the word ''reprobate'' mean?

It's also worth noting in Romans 1 the reprobates were not brought back to God.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well it says reprobate mind. What does the word ''reprobate'' mean?

It's also worth noting in Romans 1 the reprobates were not brought back to God.

So you believe that God has predestined reprobates to damnation?

Why do you limit the sources for discussion to Romans chapter one?

 

[Saint Steven]

It's also worth noting in Romans 1 the reprobates were not brought back to God.

Also worthy to note that chapter one leads to chapter two. There were no chapter breaks in the original writing. The Apostle has a message for us there.

Romans 2:1-4
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

 

[Daniel C]

So you believe that God has predestined reprobates to damnation?

Why do you limit the sources for discussion to Romans chapter one?

Do we need any more than Romans 1? It's self explanatory.

God predestines everything from his foreknowledge but doesn't cause all our choices.

The way I see it is God makes law,man violates law, God gives them up to a reprobate mind.

Not all sin is equal.

 

[Saint Steven]

Do we need any more than Romans 1? It's self explanatory.

God predestines everything from his foreknowledge but doesn't cause all our choices.

The way I see it is God makes law,man violates law, God gives them up to a reprobate mind.

Not all sin is equal.

Not all sin is equal?
Do you believe God grades on a curve?
Where does he draw the line? What is a failing grade?

 

[Saint Steven]

Do we need any more than Romans 1? It's self explanatory.

Romans chapter two verse one contains the word "therefore". (thus referring to chapter one) It seems that at least that should be included. But limiting sources is generally a bad idea. IMHO

If the point you are trying to make falls apart outside of Romans chapter one, is it really a valid point?

 

[Daniel C]

Romans chapter two verse one contains the word "therefore". (thus referring to chapter one) It seems that at least that should be included. But limiting sources is generally a bad idea. IMHO

If the point you are trying to make falls apart outside of Romans chapter one, is it really a valid point?

I can see you're trying hard to oppose the idea of reprobation steven. Good for you.

Before we go further and further from the original point please answer the first question I asked you.

Well it says reprobate mind. What does the word ''reprobate'' mean?

It's also worth noting in Romans 1 the reprobates were not brought back to God.

 

[Saint Steven]

I can see you're trying hard to oppose the idea of reprobation steven. Good for you.

I'm not opposed to reprobation, only the common definition.
Does God really predestine his creation to damnation? Were you chosen to enjoy eternal bliss while you could have just as well been chosen to suffer eternal torment in the Lake of Fire with no hope of escape? Is that the God we worship?

It is clear to me that God uses reprobation (his choice, not ours) to bring sinners to repentance. He is the God who leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one. Reprobation is one of the tools he uses in that regard.

 

[Daniel C]

I'm not opposed to reprobation, only the common definition.
It is clear to me that God uses reprobation (his choice, not ours) to bring sinners to repentance. He is the God who leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one. Reprobation is one of the tools he uses in that regard.

Does God really predestine his creation to damnation? Were you chosen to enjoy eternal bliss while you could have just as well been chosen to suffer eternal torment in the Lake of Fire with no hope of escape? Is that the God we worship?

Reprobate=rejected by God.

Amen?

 

[Saint Steven]

Reprobate=rejected by God.

Amen?

No. Not amen.
Especially if you believe that "rejected" means shut out from grace, or destined to damnation.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[HatGuy]

Well Steven I can say after going over Romans 1 many times I don't see how it's possible for ''haters of God'' who have ''been given over to a rejected/reprobate mind'' to be reconciled with God after that point. Is it possible for the higest to do that? Yes! Is it likely for him to do that? Based on what I see in Romans 1 no. Why reject them to only bring them back later?

In fact that seems exactly why Paul is writing this doctrine-that some cannot be reconciled with God.

We know Paul was an Evangelist so he would have spoken about how some can be converted and those who cannot.

Rom 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

All are reprobate before coming to Christ. Rom 1 - 3 is making that point, that none are more righteous than another, and all need God's grace.

Based on this, I'd disagree with the "reprobate" doctrine. God can save the biggest sinners ever to walk the planet, and often He does!

 

[Daniel C]

No. Not amen.
Especially if you believe that "rejected" means shut out from grace, or destined to damnation.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Well your deliberate avoidance of this key point is the problem steven. What is a "reprobate" mind? You won't answer because it doesn't affirm your own personal belief.

I'm sure God has had mercy on us all Steven,doesn't say the grace of God is unlimited. In fact this is the nature of the reprobate doctrine.

Don't test your God.

 

[Daniel C]

Rom 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

All are reprobate before coming to Christ. Rom 1 - 3 is making that point, that none are more righteous than another, and all need God's grace.

Based on this, I'd disagree with the "reprobate" doctrine. God can save the biggest sinners ever to walk the planet, and often He does!

That's a shameful thing to say.

"We are all reprobates before we come to Christ" and that is absolutely false. Reprobates are haters of God and cut-off from God. The unsaved still have a chance and are not enemies of God.

Shame on you for that.

 

[HatGuy]

That's a shameful thing to say.

"We are all reprobates before we come to Christ" and that is absolutely false. Reprobates are haters of God and cut-off from God. The unsaved still have a chance and are not enemies of God.

Shame on you for that.

Rom 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life

Col 1:21-22
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

These are scriptures written to saved people. What do they mean then?

 

[Daniel C]

Rom 11:32
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

All are reprobate before coming to Christ. Rom 1 - 3 is making that point, that none are more righteous than another, and all need God's grace.

Based on this, I'd disagree with the "reprobate" doctrine. God can save the biggest sinners ever to walk the planet, and often He does!

Well you admit you don't accept the doctrine and you even classified the unsaved as the same group as reprobate,so I note your view and will end it here.