No such thing in scripture as 3 compartments of hell

[public hermit]

If you're taking the whole sweep of scripture into account, shouldn't there be a distinction made between Sheol, Hades, Hell, and Paradise? Sheol and Hades were very similar conceptions in that everyone went there. The difference is that one was Hebrew (Sheol) and the other Greek (Hades).

Moreover, the idea that one's moral failures or successes contributed to one's state in the afterlife was a development over time. Initially, as can be seen in the early Old Testament books, moral failures or successes contributed to the future state of the nation and it's relationship to the land, not to the afterlife.

I think any interpretation of the parable in reference in the OP needs to take these considerations into account. By the time Jesus gives that parable there has been a significant shift in how the afterlife was conceived. And yet, maybe some aspects of the old conceptions were still lingering, e.g. Abraham's bosom.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

There was a place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch. It came to be known as "Gehenna"(Greek) it then became a figurative equivalent for "hell. There was only one compartment then and one now.
There are three views of the ultimate destiny of the lost known as hell,the lake of fire ; eternal torment,annihilation and universalisim.

 

[DamianWarS]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

the account of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. how do I know this? because scripture tells us that Christ only spoke to the crowds in parables. So any literary devices in the accounts are just that and their purpose is to build a goal and don't have to describe accurate portrayals of hades (not hell) and a place at the side of Abraham that overlooks it.

the text tells us the Pharisees were listening in v14 saying "the Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus..." so Jesus has their attention and this parable is directed at them as it uniquely places the rich man which the Pharisees "who loved money" and they would identify with but with a very counter-culture message where it seems it flips the position of the rich man and the Lazarus in the afterlife.

What is important in the text is that the rich man is given judgment and Lazarus is placed at the side of Abraham... why is this important? because only a true son could be at Abraham's side and a false son would be cast aside. The text is calling the rich man a false son of Abraham, ergo the Pharisees are pseudo sons of Abraham deserving a place of judgment. It is calling Lazurus a true son of Abraham deserving a place of honour which is an unexpected, almost insulting conclusion at the time (to the Pharisees).

the text then concludes with a foreshadow of Christ saying where Abraham says to Lazurus "If [the rich man's brothers] do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” now who could this be talking about? It's still about the Pharisees but it's a little deeper and they don't really get it yet but (wink wink) it now is actually talking about Christ.

What the text doesn't tell us is that heaven and hell are in layers and one sits over the other with a glass bottom and the redeemed get to watch all those in hell get tormented or get to talk to each other. This is not the focus of the text but literary devices of the text to build the point... and the point is wealth, position, and earthly honour have nothing to do with serving God.

 

[DamianWarS]

If you're taking the whole sweep of scripture into account, shouldn't there be a distinction made between Sheol, Hades, Hell, and Paradise? Sheol and Hades were very similar conceptions in that everyone went there. The difference is that one was Hebrew (Sheol) and the other Greek (Hades).

Hades in Greek mythology is an indiscriminate place of the dead similar to Sheol in Hebrew. Where they differ is Sheol is a place of the unknown like a closed-door that everyone passes through where Hades was a fairly articulated place in Greek mythology, even with its own god (called Hades). What we should not do is superimpose Greek understanding over its biblical use (or even Hellenized Hebrew mythology like the book of Enoch) because its biblical use describes something different than what the Greeks do and at the very least Hades is still an undesired place of the dead but it is something we can be saved from so all do not go there and it now becomes a place of judgment where the redeemed do not go.

 

[Hawkins]

The OT Canon was guarded by the Great Sanhedrin which was composed of both the Sadducees and Pharisees. Any books/documents describing hell in details would be rejected by the Sadducees.

The hell concept however was adapted by the Jews in majority back then, except for the sect Sadducee.

 

[BobRyan]

the account of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. how do I know this? because scripture tells us that Christ only spoke to the crowds in parables. So any literary devices in the accounts are just that and their purpose is to build a goal and don't have to describe accurate portrayals of hades (not hell) and a place at the side of Abraham that overlooks it.

the text tells us the Pharisees were listening in v14 saying "the Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus..." so Jesus has their attention and this parable is directed at them as it uniquely places the rich man which the Pharisees "who loved money" and they would identify with but with a very counter-culture message where it seems it flips the position of the rich man and the Lazarus in the afterlife.

What is important in the text is that the rich man is given judgment and Lazarus is placed at the side of Abraham... why is this important? because only a true son could be at Abraham's side and a false son would be cast aside. The text is calling the rich man a false son of Abraham, ergo the Pharisees are pseudo sons of Abraham deserving a place of judgment. It is calling Lazurus a true son of Abraham deserving a place of honour which is an unexpected, almost insulting conclusion at the time (to the Pharisees).

the text then concludes with a foreshadow of Christ saying where Abraham says to Lazurus "If [the rich man's brothers] do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” now who could this be talking about? It's still about the Pharisees but it's a little deeper and they don't really get it yet but (wink wink) it now is actually talking about Christ.

What the text doesn't tell us is that heaven and hell are in layers and one sits over the other with a glass bottom and the redeemed get to watch all those in hell get tormented or get to talk to each other. This is not the focus of the text but literary devices of the text to build the point... and the point is wealth, position, and earthly honour have nothing to do with serving God.

amen

 

[BobRyan]

There was a place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch. It came to be known as "Gehenna"(Greek) it then became a figurative equivalent for "hell. There was only one compartment then and one now.
There are three views of the ultimate destiny of the lost known as hell,the lake of fire ; eternal torment,annihilation and universalisim.

True.

 

[Blade]

"The story of Abraham's bosom was no parable." Why is it not a parable?

I've always taken "sleep" to mean ..in most cases to mean death. Death were is your sting grave where is your victory. The word in 1st Thes says we shall not all sleep. We here on this earth say dead but no one ever dies. I am with Paul or the Holy Spirit on this one "I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord". If I am absent from this body..this body is what "sleeps" me? Since now with Christ death can not touch me.. I will be with Him.

This is what some really believe that your still stuck in this flesh. Why could no one touch Christ when He 1st rose before He ascended? They told them later "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” As I always say in "salvation threads" what was born again/born from above"? You think that new spirit new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness is trapped still after you die in this flesh?

When He comes .. we will be like Him.. this flesh shall put on? So.. those dead in Christ are as the word says with Him. No flesh.. that flesh is asleep. It has not been changed YET. Is what I get from the word.

As for hell. Yeah.. heard almost all over the years. The "I died seen hell". Hard pressed to find any that match at all.. and I haven't lol. The many pits, many layers, its shaped like.. ..on and on. It was not made for me.

Toss something out.. Jesus is real. I can hear ya lol DUH. Well talk to Him. His sheep KNOW His voice. Man that watches over sheep.. talks to the sheep. But Christ..hello.. to every one of them. We know His voice. That means He talks. He will always back what He says up by His word. You can really talk to Him. Ask Him anything.

 

[Christ is Lord]

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

That's correct.

Abraham’s Bosom (Ἀβραάμ κόλπον, Abraam kolpon). A term Christ uses to refer to a place for the spirits of the righteous dead (Luke 16:22, 23). He uses it in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man—the rich man goes to Hades, and Lazarus goes to Abraham’s bosom.

The image is taken from the ancient practice of reclining at table (see John 21:20). The Old Testament used the expression “to be gathered to one’s people (or fathers)” (see Gen 25:8; 49:33; Judg 2:10; 2 Kgs 22:20). All individuals—just or unjust—could be “gathered to their people.”

It is not possible to exactly determine what Christ meant—he uses this expression only in a single parable. The language he uses to describe His “Father’s house” seems to indicate a different reality (see John 14:2). Abraham’s bosom may be the same as the “Paradise” mentioned in Luke 23:43.


Major Contributors and Editors. (2016). Abraham’s Bosom. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

Why do we get lost in such speculation about Paradise? In God's vision (2 Corinthians 12:1-10), Paul went to the third heaven where he saw Paradise, but he couldn't say anything about it. How can we say more?

 

[DavidPT]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

Here's one problem with this thinking, not meaning your thinking though. In order for there to even be a place called Abraham's bosom for the righteous souls, it would have to mean there has to be an Abraham first, and that Abraham then occupied this place. I'm pretty certain before there was even an Abraham, righteous folks were already physically dying. Abel appears to be the first recorded death of a righteous person, as opposed to an ununrighteous person, such as the rich man in the Luke Parable. So where did Abel go when he died? Abel couldn't have gone to Abraham's bosom, that's for certain. So where did he go when he died then?

 

[Christ is Lord]

Here's one problem with this thinking, not meaning your thinking though. In order for there to even be a place called Abraham's bosom for the righteous souls, it would have to mean there has to be an Abraham first, and that Abraham then occupied this place. I'm pretty certain before there was even an Abraham, righteous folks were already physically dying. Abel appears to be the first recorded death of a righteous person, as opposed to an ununrighteous person, such as the rich man in the Luke Parable. So where did Abel go when he died? Abel couldn't have gone to Abraham's bosom, that's for certain. So where did he go when he died then?

Nvm

 

[DennisTate]

Luk 10:14

But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.


Luk 10:12

But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.


Mar 6:11

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Mat 11:24

But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.


Mat 11:22

But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.


Mat 10:15

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

 

[BobRyan]

If you're taking the whole sweep of scripture into account, shouldn't there be a distinction made between Sheol, Hades

Sheol -- grave OT
Hades -- grave NT

, Hell, and Paradise?

Hell -- sometimes used for Hades in NT -- so ... grave.. and other times it is fiery hell "fiery Gehenna" - John calls that the "lake of fire" in Rev 20.

Paradise -- is always heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

That's correct.

Abraham’s Bosom (Ἀβραάμ κόλπον, Abraam kolpon). A term Christ uses to refer to a place for the spirits of the righteous dead (Luke 16:22, 23). .... Abraham’s bosom may be the same as the “Paradise” mentioned in Luke 23:43.

"may be" sounds like they too never found a place saying "paradise is called Abraham's bosom " in the Bible

 

[BobRyan]

Luk 10:14
But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.

Luk 10:12
But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Mar 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


Mat 11:24
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Mat 11:22
But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.


Mat 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Lot's of great places to not find "paradise is called Abraham's Bosom" or "Hell is divide into three compartments"

 

[spiritualchristian7]

I have gone out on a limb in the claim that there is no Bible statement in OT or NT claiming that hell is divided into three parts, or that Paradise is in hell, or that paradise is the first compartment in hell or any such thing as that. so if I am wrong this should be pretty easy to point out my error.

In the example of the parable in Luke 16 we have prayers to the dead that are of the form of the rich man praying to Ἀβραάμ Abraam

Someone could possibly respond like this


Well I do know the the following;

1. no text in OT or NT says that - only this parable where we have prayers to the dead. And even it does not say "until Jesus ascended into heaven all the saved went to the compartment of hell known as Abrahams Bosom/Paradise"

2. what is more NO TEXT in OT or NT says that another name for Paradise is "Abrham's bosom"

3. There are in fact only 3 uses of the term "paradise" in all of scripture and none say they are abraham's bosom

Now I suppose that someone "might" say in response



As I have said elsewhere

u need the greek bc the WORD HELL IS TRANSLATED FROM 3 GREEK WORDS
TARTARUS where the angels r bound GEHENNA the burning trash heap in jerusalem and HADES the dwelling place of the dead

(my notes I got from a fellowship with someone who reads greek&hebrew scripture)

 

[BobRyan]

u need the greek bc the WORD HELL IS TRANSLATED FROM 3 GREEK WORDS
TARTARUS where the angels r bound GEHENNA the burning trash heap in jerusalem and HADES the dwelling place of the dead

(my notes I got from a fellowship with someone who reads greek&hebrew scripture)

There is no greek "hell" that is english.

In the Greek you have Hades -- which is sometimes translated "Hell" in english translations
In the Greek you have Tartarus -- which is sometimes translated "Hell" in english translations
In the Greek you have GEHENNA -- which is sometimes translated "Hell" in english translations

But there is no such thing as a Greek term "Hell" made up of those other three words.

 

[Christ is Lord]

"may be" sounds like they too never found a place saying "paradise is called Abraham's bosom " in the Bible

It could be because Israelite concept of the afterlife in the OT doesn’t map neatly unto the concept of the afterlife in the NT.

 

[BobRyan]

It could be because Israelite concept of the afterlife in the OT doesn’t map neatly unto the concept of the afterlife in the NT.

When they use the "may be" or "possibly" language to say one thing might be viewed as another thing - they are admitting they have nothing to quote showing that such is the case... rather it is just a hunch.