LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

[mmksparbud]

The key prophet over each dispensation has the right to sit in judgement of that generation alongside Heavenly Father and Jesus.

Jesus is our High priest, it is His judgement that counts.

Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

When Jesus returns, judgement has already been determined. He comes for the saved only. The only thing left to decide---was God just in His judgements? What will be the punishment of the wicked? The saved will get their reward when Jesus returns, it will be with Him. Theirs has already been decided. It is only the wicked that are left. We only get to see for ourselves, when the books are opened, why the lost are lost and the saved, saved. That is what the saved will be seeing during the 1000 years---why their sainted Aunt Bertha is lost and old very weird Uncle Joe, is saved. It not that we decide who is lost or saved. We will see the fair judgement of God.

 

[Rescued One]

Jesus Christ will decide who is with Him and who is not there. He will separate the wheat from the tares.

You can't tell a Christian from a non-Christian? Your prophets and apostles believed they knew.

 

[Rescued One]

As I said God has always existed, there was never a time when nothing existed.

Of course, God always existed! But why did your god exist as mere intelligence at first? Why was your "heavenly father" born from other gods, formed into a human and have to merit his godhood?

 

[mmksparbud]

You can't tell a Christian from a non-Christian? Your prophets and apostles believed they knew.

With all due respect---sometimes it is practically impossible to tell the difference!! It takes God for He alone reads the heart! We can cover up real good with sheep's clothing.

 

[Rescued One]

Oh, I know. Mormons like to judge people and claim they are Christians who actually aren't. Just because a person attends church once or more times a week, doesn't mean they are actually a Christian. Jesus said, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" We can recognize the wolves by their fruits; perhaps not at first, but we study God's word.

Matthew 5
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

According to Mormonism in previous years, you and I would be considered tares and part of Babylon.

• President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

Marriage for time and for eternity is the strait gate and the narrow way (spoken of in the scriptures) “that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it,” but “broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat.” (Doc. and Cov. D&C 132:22, 25.) If Satan and his hosts can persuade you to take the broad highway of worldly marriage that ends with death, he has defeated you in your opportunity for the highest degree of eternal happiness through marriage and increase throughout eternity. It should now be clear to your reasoning why the Lord declared that in order to obtain the highest degree in the Celestial glory, a person must enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. If he does not, he cannot obtain it. (Doc. and Cov. D&C 131:1–3.)2
- Harold B. Lee
Chapter 12: The Divine Purpose of Marriage

 

[He is the way]

Of course, God always existed! But why did your god exist as mere intelligence at first? Why was your "heavenly father" born from other gods, formed into a human and have to merit his godhood?

I wouldn't say mere intelligence, nor would I say God is merely love. Is the glory of God mere intelligence? I know that God is powerful. Perhaps we can say that God has supernatural intelligence:

The GOD Connection – Supernatural Intelligence – Stevie White

We do believe that we all progress through keeping our estates. we kept our first estate. Jesus also progressed:

(New Testament | Jude 1:6)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

(New Testament | Luke 2:52)

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

 

[He is the way]

Not according to BY---JS has the final word.

(New Testament | Revelation 20:6)

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[He is the way]

Where does it say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same substance as humans? Where does it say that the Trinity earned Godhood through obedience because your gods had to be born as humans and hadn't obeyed enough laws at some point in time? Why does your holy spirit not have the body that Mormonism requires for godhood?

God has a resurrected spiritual body not a human body. There is no trinity however Jesus did do His Father's will and completed the works His Father gave Him to do.. Where does it say that Godhood requires having a body?

 

[He is the way]

You can't tell a Christian from a non-Christian? Your prophets and apostles believed they knew.

Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ are Christians:

What does the Bible really mean by “believing?”

 

[mmksparbud]

God has a resurrected spiritual body not a human body. There is no trinity however Jesus did do His Father's will and completed the works His Father gave Him to do.. Where does it say that Godhood requires having a body?

What was God resurrected from?

 

[Peter1000]

Right, and only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are immortal. Adam and Eve were not created immortal---none of the angels are immortal. Only God.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They were dependent on the tree of life for their immortality. After the resurrection, the saved get thsat tree and water if life again.

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

So do you believe the angels in heaven will some day die and be obliterated from existence?

Will satan someday die and be obliterated from existence?

I think that is a very bold statement to make, that God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are the only ones that are immortal. Especially since Jesus died on the cross. Yes, he was resurrected, but yes, he was dead. That does not bode well for being immortal if there is a time that you die.

Can God make anyone immortal?

 

[mmksparbud]

What was God resurrected from?

This question was asked by someone else earlier---but never answered.

 

[dzheremi]

God has a resurrected spiritual body not a human body. There is no trinity

This is anathema and disgusting, and not the kind of thing anyone should have to read on a Christian website (but thanks be to God we love the freedom by which a sinner may say his peace and be corrected, if he will take correction). May the One God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit + -- have mercy upon you for writing such horrific blasphemy. I would echo the words of our holy and perfect Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ upon the Cross, that you be forgiven because you don't know what you are doing or saying, but I suspect that this is not the case. I don't know how anyone could be here on CF and interact with actual Christians as much as you have and not at least have a passive understanding of what is acceptable to say about God on a Christian website that holds to the Nicene Creed as its Statement of Faith and what is not acceptable.

On the other hand, if anyone ever needed proof that Mormonism definitively, by its own doctrine, does not worship God at all, I think this is as good as any you'll find.

Again, Lord have mercy.

 

[Peter1000]

Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ are Christians:

What does the Bible really mean by “believing?”

And the proof that you believe in Jesus Christ is if you keep him commandments. That is how you can tell a believer from a fake believer.

 

[mmksparbud]

So do you believe the angels in heaven will some day die and be obliterated from existence?

Will satan someday die and be obliterated from existence?

I think that is a very bold statement to make, that God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are the only ones that are immortal. Especially since Jesus died on the cross. Yes, he was resurrected, but yes, he was dead. That does not bode well for being immortal if there is a time that you die.

Can God make anyone immortal?

Satan and his angels will. Nothing bold about it.

ze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

This is nit about the King of Tyre--he was never a covering cherub, Lucifer was.

Even A&E had access to the tree of life.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Had They remained in the garden with access to the tree, they would have lived in sin forever, so they were kicked out. We get that tree of life back.

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Eternal life is a gift from God, not a right of birth.

Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Jesus Christ was immortal before becoming human for He is God and always was and always will be.

Joh_10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit--alone immortal for they are divine---neither we, nor no angel, are divine.

 

[He is the way]

What was God resurrected from?

He was resurrected and His body was changed into a spiritual resurrected body:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:40 - 58)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[mmksparbud]

He was resurrected and His body was changed into a spiritual resurrected body:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:40 - 58)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Seriously???---God the Father was resurrected? Again--0 From what? What happened--obviously resurrection is from death---you seriously saying God the Father was once dead???? How?!!!

 

[He is the way]

This is anathema and disgusting, and not the kind of thing anyone should have to read on a Christian website (but thanks be to God we love the freedom by which a sinner may say his peace and be corrected, if he will take correction). May the One God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit + -- have mercy upon you for writing such horrific blasphemy. I would echo the words of our holy and perfect Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ upon the Cross, that you be forgiven because you don't know what you are doing or saying, but I suspect that this is not the case. I don't know how anyone could be here on CF and interact with actual Christians as much as you have and not at least have a passive understanding of what is acceptable to say about God on a Christian website that holds to the Nicene Creed as its Statement of Faith and what is not acceptable.

On the other hand, if anyone ever needed proof that Mormonism definitively, by its own doctrine, does not worship God at all, I think this is as good as any you'll find.

Again, Lord have mercy.

See post #976 We definitely DO worship God. The way to worship God and LOVE Him is to keep His commandments. He gave us the commandments of LOVE so that we could learn to LOVE as He does. The righteous keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:18)

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(New Testament | Luke 1:5 - 6)

5 ¶ THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judæa, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 5)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[dzheremi]

I cannot imagine having a worldview that would allow for such a warped reading of 1 Corinthians. How on earth was GOD "Sown in corruption", or in dishonor, etc.? The question was about God, and you come back with all of this stuff that is about our resurrection, which was indeed made possible in the resurrection of Christ (who is God, even as you deny it), such that we, as fallible, passable human beings were subject to corruption naturally, but being risen in Christ will thereafter not be! To quote Methodius' (d. 311 AD) discourse on the resurrection: "But the corruptible and mortal putting on incorruption and immortality, what else is this, but that which is sown in corruption rising in incorruption?" It is true and in line with what is said later by HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic (d. 373), often abused by Mormons in an attempt to give their strange and foreign doctrines patristic sanction which they do not have, concerning Christ: that He became Man so that man may become God. Christ gives us eternal life in the resurrection through having willingly become man (and through the true human flesh He took, suffering corruption and death upon the cross), and hence 'put on corruption' so that the corruptible and mortal (us) may rise in incorruption.

So it's about us, not about God the Father. Again, it is stunning that anyone would get things that wrong.

 

[dzheremi]

And no, you do not worship God. No way. This is not debatable, because you deny Him by what you yourself write and preach instead. None of us made you write that awful, God-denying rubbish.