question about hell

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Anguspure]

the body dies - but there is more to a person - as the inner man

Soul can mean a person - as in when Joshua destroyed souls - utterly even.

Indeed, we have a soulish in part to us. But there is no reason to suppose that this survives death of the whole person.

The devils show in the NT being afraid of being tormented/destroyed in the future.

Satan -tormented - for ever and ever - day and night

also the false prophet

Destroy can seem to mean -torment.

With our current dualistic understanding these things can seem to be so. But if we discard the hellenization of our Jewish faith, these things seem much less so.

Isaiah 66 shows those in the lake of fire as to men - their worm dies not.

The others -the just are not going out to that location to just see smoke.

The worm (maggot) does not die, and worms only feast on dead flesh. Worms do not eat living things.

The smoke of their torment may rise forever but this does not say they being tormented forever.

 

[Anguspure]

Part of death is actually estrangement from God who is the giver of life.

That is true, which means one cannot possibly be alive apart form Him.
The other thing to consider in connection with this is that our immortality is not automatic. We only have salvation and eternal life if we remain in Him and eat from Him who is our tree of life.
Even Adam and Eve were given the tree of life to eat from and on the day they were removed from the garden they began to die.

 

[mkgal1]

The time of faith as to the church way will end. People will see Jesus Christ as He
reigns on the earth. There will be an attempt by Gog to attack the holy city, and
time will pass until the hour and day not known - when heaven and earth shall pass
away. Those living then will be divided up into sheep and goats. Some are saved, but the lost/goats go to everlasting punishment. The dead of the unjust will be resurrected, but they are not part of the sheep and goats separation.

I'd asked what separated the sheep and the goats and if that's typically the "way to salvation" we're presented.

What did Jesus say was the distinction between the two groups? To make it easier - here's the passage:

Matthew 25:31-46 ~

“But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”​

 

[Anguspure]

The rich man - said - this place of torment.
He knew others could join him - and others were already in his area in hell.

tormented by this flame

Didn't want his five brothers to end up there, too. He wanted them to repent.

The story is a snap shot in time. Yes, it speaks of torment, but not eternal.

 

[martymonster]

The Lake of fire is the refiner's fire, meant to bring sinners to repentance.
It has nothing to do with torturing people for eternity. There's a reason people put on sackcloth and ashes. It symbolises that our own works (garments) are worthless to God, and that the old way of thinking has been burned out of us (ashes)

The whole concept of everlasting torment, makes an absolute mockery of scripture.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[martymonster]

neither forgiven in this world, nor the one to come

hath not forgiveness

The word translated in the verse as "world" and is also translated as "age"
The question is, how many ages are there?

Rev 22:5 and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign—to the ages of the ages.

The Young's literal translation of "ages of the ages" seems to suggest that there is more than simply 2. I also tend to think that it would probably be better translated "the age of the ages" which would make more sense.

 

[Silverback]

is there anywhere in the Bible in which hell is reffered to as eternal torture?

Hell is consciences separation from God's care, love, mercy, and grace. Hell is the destination God created for humanity, only those saved by his grace, for Christ sake, through faith will escape.

Hell is real, Hell is worse than anything humanity has ever experienced. You will know you are there, and you will also know where you are not.

Hell is punnishment, Hell is eternal, Hell is sorrow, Hell is regret, and it is forever.

There will be no parole, there will be no second chance, a billion years from now you will still be suffering, weeping, and begging for relief, and it will never come.

No one in the presence of the Lord will remember you, your great deeds will not be remembered, you are forgotten, and no one will be pleading for mercy on your behalf.

That pretty much seems like torture to me. The doctrine of Hell has been well documented, and we'll defined. Don't be led astray by people who will tell you that people will have a second chance, or, can time out, or after a period of punishment you will face spiritual death...don't fall for it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[martymonster]

ages of ages - also can be shown as generation to generation -in the future

Luke 1:50
Luke 1:48

Ephesians 3:21

There's no night in the holy city, but day and night Satan will be tormented forever and ever.

Others will have to go out and view wicked men that their worm doesn't die it seems
for eternity. sabbath and new moon
The moon and sun will endure for eternity.

I believe we will go out and view these wickeds - as that is how God will keep sin
out of the rest of eternity as to people. Similar in the OT where all of Israel stoned
a sinner, as a warning to the others - to hear, fear, and obey, - do that sin no more.

Ephesians 2:7 /in the ages to come
that He might shew -the exceeding riches of His grace -to the saints -the church
His kindness to us.

This would have been a great place to put some words as to if the wicked in future
ages will ever also find grace.= mercy.
However, just a few verses back - the children of wrath - Ephesians 2:3
Next verse - "But...he loved us."

Oh wow.....sounds lovely!

 

[GodLovesCats]

It's all a parable. If it was a parable about people being tortured in hell, then I wouldn't be a parable then, would it. It's amazing how many people don't understand the concept of symbolism.

People can understand the concept of symbolism, but not parables.

 

[martymonster]

The NT refers to -spirits from the time of the flood - as in prison.

hell?

1 Peter 3:19

We're the spirits in prison.

 

[Dkh587]

Please read Psalm 37. Read it carefully and thoughtfully, and consider whether or not David taught that the wicked were tortured forever in fire.

pay attention to the words and phrases he uses to describe what happens to them. Does he use imagery of annihilation, or imagery of eternal fiery torture?

 

[martymonster]

People can understand the concept of symbolism, but not parables.

You know what I'm say though, right? If you are telling a parable about a man who goes to town and gets robbed on the way, but the parable is just the details about a man getting robbed on the way to town, that's not a parable....that's a story about a man getting robbed on the way to town.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not so,

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Physically, every person will die.
The evidence is great.