White Supremacy Is Terrorism, Not a Difference of Opinion

[mothcorrupteth]

Funny how the only people who constantly try to downplay the threat of white supremacy are the people who would never be targeted by white supremacists.

Because the KKK has always had nothing but good things to say about Catholics and Orthodox.

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON
Thread has undergone some cleanup
Making racist comments is a form of flaming.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[SummerMadness]

Because the KKK has always had nothing but good things to say about Catholics and Orthodox.

While the KKK was anti-immigrant, they were primarily anti-black, especially at its inception.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That attitude is not merely a thought, it holds implicit violence.

Thoughts aren't violence.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

While the KKK was anti-immigrant, they were primarily anti-black, especially at its inception.

Well, I'm not disputing that, but you're moving the goalpost. The charge made was that people like me don't consider white supremacists to be a statistical threat because we don't belong to groups that they target. Well, I do. I'm Orthodox, and these geniuses don't exactly see much of a difference between Constantinople and Rome. As I've mentioned before, I'm also predominantly German. The Know-Nothings--which stemmed from that perennial harvest-soil of racism (the Northeast)--frequently referred to my people as [a term that is apparently off-limits even in a censored format, despite being a slur against my own people that I am identifying as bad]. Then, after the Zimmerman telegram, PA Dutchmen couldn't travel to other parts of the country for fear of being suspected of spying for the Kaiser. Oh yeah, and I'm a conservative. You know what the princes of all white supremacists did to the German Revolutionary Conservatives in the Night of the Long Knives? They didn't say, "Oh, well, we're both right wing, so we'll let you live." No. Because that's not even true--European nationalism stemmed historically from left-wing Enlightenment thinkers. The Nazis killed or drove us conservatives into exile. "Not threatened"? Yikes. I'd had to see what the "real threats" look like.

No, I oppose the idea that white supremacy is a rampant epidemic in this country because I am a scientist, and science proceeds best when its practitioners are cynical skeptics. And as a cynical skeptic, I don't trust statistics or personal experience. I trust incentives, and the incentives of the media are to sensationalize the boring in order to make advertisers happy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Funny how the only people who constantly try to downplay the threat of white supremacy are the people who would never be targeted by white supremacists.

For starters....no one in this thread has bothered to define "white supremacist" and that makes it difficult to rally around. In recent years, I've seen the term used to describe the founding of our nation, our prison system, and just about everything in between.

The article itself revolves around one vendor at a market who identifies with a white supremacist group. As far as I can tell, she's never attacked or threatened to attack anyone. What exactly do you think should be done with her?

We can't write laws that are specific to one race...we can't target people for the color of their skin. Any laws against "white supremacist ideas" are also going to be used against blacks and latinos who push similar ideas. The Black Hebrew Israelites are out on the street every other week pushing their brand of hate....should we throw them in jail? Black Lives Matter pushes a lot of ideas similar to white supremacists (except for blacks, obviously) should we throw their supporters in jail? How about La Raza? They're a rather large group that holds some extremely racist views...

La Raza has Changed Its Name but Don't Be Fooled: It's Still a Sick, Racist Group | K. Lloyd Billingsley

"According to Vasconcelos, students from English, Dutch and Scandinavian backgrounds are “slower, almost dull,” compared to “mestizo children and youths from the south.” Blacks are “uglier stocks” and part of the “inferior races.” The Mongol, “with the mystery of his slanted eyes,” is part of an “exhausted people” that lacks the “boldness for new enterprises.”

According to La Raza Cosmica, the fusion of Spaniards and Indians is a new race “infinitely superior to all that have previously existed.” That is the razareplacing those awful “Anglo-Saxons” code for all non-raza peoples who speak English, and who “are gradually becoming more a part of yesterday.”

Sounds a lot like latino supremacy to me.

Would you feel better if I said that I disagree with all these ideas and hold a low opinion of the people who believe in them? I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to anyone that I'm a decent human being.

The problem is that even if we could overturn all the well established precedents of the SCOTUS that protect freedom of speech....I wouldn't want to. I don't want to live in a nation where people are so cowardly they abandon their freedoms because of a handful of bad people. I don't want to live in a nation that treats thoughts as crimes and imprisons or otherwise punishes people for their beliefs. I don't think we need a government, business, or institution looking over our shoulders and telling us what we can and cannot read, watch, or hear.

If a white supremacist makes a legitimate credible threat against someone....the law already allows us to charge them with a crime. So what exactly is the problem?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think one of the issues with white supremacy is that those that espouse those views are angered if they are labeled racist because racist means "bad person." However, they still happily espouse racist beliefs based on a premise of white supremacy. One attitude that has been around since the end of slavery was the belief that Black people were lazy, hence the need for slavery as it gave them order and structure. We still see those views being expressed in spite of the claim that white supremacy is a thing of the past.

Someone can hold a racist idea and not be a white supremacist. There's black people who think blacks are lazy....it's a racist idea, but it doesn't make someone a white supremacist.

Perhaps you would have better luck pushing the idea that white supremacists should be punished if you didn't label everything white supremacy.

I think we need to follow the cue of William Lloyd Garrison who transformed a complex system like slavery and distilled it down to a single point: Slavery was evil; and those racists justifying or ignoring slavery were evil, and it was the moral duty of the United States to eliminate that evil.

Then all of mankind was evil up until the 1800s. William Lloyd Garrison doesn't sound very bright.

We must have the same attitude about white supremacy. White supremacy is evil; and those who support or ignore white supremacy are evil, and it is the moral duty of the United States to eliminate that evil.

White supremacy is violence.

Nah.

 

[Ana the Ist]

White supremacy is arguing that one group is superior to another. Plain and simple. This is not a mere difference of opinion, it's an attitude replete with prejudice, bigotry and violence.

Kendrick Lamar has pushed the ideas of Black Hebrew Israelites in his music....which is pretty popular. Should we throw him in jail? How about all the people who bought his music, thereby promoting black supremacy? Throw them in jail too?

 

[rambot]

Thoughts aren't violence.

“Watch your thoughts, they become words;
watch your words, they become actions;
watch your actions, they become habits;
watch your habits, they become character;
watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

FRANK OUTLAW

It is rare that thoughts don't lead to actions; whether large or small.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Kendrick Lamar has pushed the ideas of Black Hebrew Israelites in his music....which is pretty popular. Should we throw him in jail? How about all the people who bought his music, thereby promoting black supremacy? Throw them in jail too?

You have to understand the mindset. Black supremacy is okay and is totally not racist or nationalist because someone decided that non-whites have a disproportionate history of suffering at the hands of whites. Exactly which someone gets to make this decision for everybody else, or what their methodology is for quantifying and classifying suffering and race, or why we should find it convincing and binding, is a little fuzzy, but for some reason known only to people with this mindset, it is not just good ol'-fashioned double-standard moving-the-goalposts. (Even though we all know it really is.) Also, for some reason, even though this is the exact thought process of the 18th and 19th centuries that led to German nationalism and Slavophobia and eventually national socialism, everything will turn out fine this time around.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

It is rare that thoughts don't lead to actions; whether large or small.

I should tell that one next time my boss mentions a raise and never puts any concrete promise in writing...

 

[rambot]

I should tell that one next time my boss mentions a raise and never puts any concrete promise in writing...

Perhaps his thought was "I need to placate this worker. I will figure out ways to placate this worker". Seems he then said a really great thing and you are misunderstanding him.

 

[SummerMadness]

How white supremacy went mainstream in the US: 8chan, Trump, voter suppression

Before he opened fire on an El Paso, Texas shopping center, killing 22 people and injuring dozens more, the accused gunman, Patrick Crusius, allegedly posted a manifesto online explicitly stating his motivation: he was trying to stop a "Hispanic invasion of Texas." In April, another shooter attacked a synagogue in Poway, California, killing one woman and wounding three other people. In his a "manifesto" attributed to him, he claimed he was responding to the "meticulously planned genocide of the European race."

In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in October 2018, still another shooter attacked a synagogue that he chose deliberately because the congregation helped with refugee relocation. He wrote online that they were trying to "bring invaders in that kill our people." The man who murdered 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, earlier this year, called immigration an "assault on the European people."

One of the tactics of white supremacists is to mainstream their ideas. It started with changing logos, but soon became altering their language just enough to push the idea without overtly pushing the racism.

We also witness espousing of racial views with claims that they are "just the facts" or personal experiences that must now apply to all non-whites. They all speak to an ideology that hearkens back to the historic segregationists that wanted to eliminated formerly enslaved people.

 

[SummerMadness]

You have to understand the mindset. Black supremacy is okay and is totally not racist or nationalist because someone decided that non-whites have a disproportionate history of suffering at the hands of whites. Exactly which someone gets to make this decision for everybody else, or what their methodology is for quantifying and classifying suffering and race, or why we should find it convincing and binding, is a little fuzzy, but for some reason known only to people with this mindset, it is not just good ol'-fashioned double-standard moving-the-goalposts. (Even though we all know it really is.) Also, for some reason, even though this is the exact thought process of the 18th and 19th centuries that led to German nationalism and Slavophobia and eventually national socialism, everything will turn out fine this time around.

When people keep pushing the Black supremacist threat in the face of white supremacy that is routinely taking lives, you have to wonder what world people are living in that they simply ignore the clear and present danger. White supremacy is terrorism, synagogues, churches, malls, etc., have been routinely targeted. If you want to discuss the "Black supremacist threat," by all means create that thread showing the daily threats and its spread across the US, radicalizing people and leading to the murder of non-Black people based on skin color.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is rare that thoughts don't lead to actions; whether large or small.

That's nonsense....everyone has thoughts all day long they don't act on.

 

[Ana the Ist]

When people keep pushing the Black supremacist threat in the face of white supremacy that is routinely taking lives, you have to wonder what world people are living in that they simply ignore the clear and present danger. White supremacy is terrorism, synagogues, churches, malls, etc., have been routinely targeted. If you want to discuss the "Black supremacist threat," by all means create that thread showing the daily threats and its spread across the US, radicalizing people and leading to the murder of non-Black people based on skin color.

I don't really have to point out all the times in this thread that you equated thoughts with violence, do I? You made this bed...

White supremacy is arguing that one group is superior to another. Plain and simple. This is not a mere difference of opinion, it's an attitude replete with prejudice, bigotry and violence.

There you go...if it's ideas and thoughts that are the problem....then you've got a lot of non-whites to lock up. You're the one claiming that these thoughts are evil, you're the one arguing that anyone who doesn't fight against them is evil or enabling evil. What happened to "these are just beliefs and opinions" and "thoughts are violence"? Do you really believe that?

So how are you going to sit there and pretend that these thoughts aren't just as evil when they come from a black or latino or otherwise non-white person? Here's a black hebrew israelite who murdered a 4yo kid because he thought he was "gay"...

Leader of Black Hebrew Sect Pleads Guilty to Killing 4-Year-Old

If you really believe that people who express these racist beliefs need to be punished....then you've got a lot of black and latino people to throw in jail.

Stay consistent....or explain why only whites should be targeted and it's not really about "evil thoughts". That should be a good read.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You have to understand the mindset. Black supremacy is okay and is totally not racist or nationalist because someone decided that non-whites have a disproportionate history of suffering at the hands of whites. Exactly which someone gets to make this decision for everybody else, or what their methodology is for quantifying and classifying suffering and race, or why we should find it convincing and binding, is a little fuzzy, but for some reason known only to people with this mindset, it is not just good ol'-fashioned double-standard moving-the-goalposts. (Even though we all know it really is.) Also, for some reason, even though this is the exact thought process of the 18th and 19th centuries that led to German nationalism and Slavophobia and eventually national socialism, everything will turn out fine this time around.

Believe me...I understand the mindset.

There's video after video online of some of these black supremacists going onto the streets with bullhorns and calling whites evil, calling for white slavery, and even harassing whites as they walk by.

Never have I seen Antifa, or any group of counterprotesters ever show up to throw bottles of urine on them and beat them up. I saw Black Lives Matter protest alongside racist hate groups to defend Farrakhan...the leader of a racist hate group. He preaches black superiority and death to jews and whites. Nobody so much as blinked at it either.

There's already laws against violence....so that's not the issue. Arguments like those in the article are never directed at black or latino racists or hate groups. No, the mindset is pretty obvious....

This is by far my favorite example....

Ohio State Student Drives Into Crowd, Stabs People on Campus

That incident didn't get as much attention in the national media....but it's basically a Muslim radical killing and stabbing people because he felt muslims are mistreated.

The response from people on the left was astonishing. I saw footage of students at that college asking about how they can treat muslims better so similar incidents don't happen in the future. It's not hard to guess what those same people would say if it were a white man who killed and stabbed people because he felt whites are mistreated.

They'd be trying to think of ways to remove his freedom of speech and lock him up for his ideas.

This has nothing to do with "thoughts are violence" or even "we need to punish evil racists". It's just another attempt to demonize and blame whites.

 

[SummerMadness]

FBI's Wray says most domestic terrorism arrests this year involve white supremacy

FBI Director Christopher Wray said Tuesday that the agency has made about 100 domestic terrorism-related arrests since October, and the majority were tied to white supremacy.

"I will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence, but it does include other things as well," Wray said at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, referring to cases in fiscal 2019, which began Oct. 1.

The threat is very real.

 

[SummerMadness]

White House rebuffed attempts by DHS to make combating domestic terrorism a higher priority

White House officials rebuffed efforts by their colleagues at the Department of Homeland Security for more than a year to make combating domestic terror threats, such as those from white supremacists, a greater priority as specifically spelled out in the National Counterterrorism Strategy, current and former senior administration officials as well as other sources close to the Trump administration tell CNN.

"Homeland Security officials battled the White House for more than a year to get them to focus more on domestic terrorism," one senior source close to the Trump administration tells CNN. "The White House wanted to focus only on the jihadist threat which, while serious, ignored the reality that racial supremacist violence was rising fast here at home. They had major ideological blinders on."

It is hard to fight this terrorism when the current administration wishes to ignore it.

 

[KCfromNC]

That's not my argument. My argument is that when you treat an opposing position as completely intolerable to you, in every minutia, then you de-incentivize moderation and compromise.

Maybe, but who thinks compromising with white supremacists is an admirable goal?