UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson calls on Germany and France to compromise on Brexit

[Arcangl86]

Why would the EU compromise? It's the UK who wanted to leave. They are just trying to get the benefits of EU membership without the obligations of said membership.

 

[Albion]

How do you get the benefits of EU membership without being a member of the EU?

 

[Goonie]

Why would the EU compromise? It's the UK who wanted to leave. They are just trying to get the benefits of EU membership without the obligations of said membership.

The Tories are now set on no deal, and in case off future governments wanting to rejoin they are aiming to make it as acrimonious as possible. For example the Home Secretary has just declared that post 31oct this year any eu national without proven settled status will be treated as any other illegal immigrant, detained and deported.

 

[NightHawkeye]

The Tories are now set on no deal, and in case off future governments wanting to rejoin they are aiming to make it as acrimonious as possible. For example the Home Secretary has just declared that post 31oct this year any eu national without proven settled status will be treated as any other illegal immigrant, detained and deported.

My understanding is that immigration was a big factor in the UK voting for Brexit.

 

[Goonie]

My understanding is that immigration was a big factor in the UK voting for Brexit.

Yes, and I’m sure we will appreciate 80 year old English pensioners in Spain treated the same way

Leavers need to remember Pakistan is not part of the EU.

 

[Tom 1]

My understanding is that immigration was a big factor in the UK voting for Brexit.

There has been some general grumbling about immigration, but it's hard to say exactly what the issue is. In general, immigrants to the UK either take highly skilled jobs or unskilled jobs, jobs that there aren't enough UK citizens qualifed for or that citizens don't want to do. Fruit farmers for example rely on immigrant workers as the locals just won't do the work.

All kinds of things contribute to the shortfall in skilled workers. The policies of the recent Tory govt have put people off studying nursing or medicine and going on to work for the NHS, qualifications and jobs that used to be something many people wanted to do and which had some prestige are now made so difficult that numbers of applicants have dropped. It's led some people to speculate that the tories have been deliberately winding down the NHS in order to have an excuse to try and privatise it. Whatever the case is, the last minister for health, one of Boris's mates, was about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

It's hard to see what will be gained from reducing immigration. Some people just don't like anyone who isn't like them, hence all of the made up bs to try and justify their own prejudices to themselves. Most if not all of them will have been treated by an immigrant Dr at some point in their lives.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I just hope Boris isn't lying and will actually deliver a no deal Brexit on the 31st.

 

[tulc]

Well I remember an old song called Breaking Up is Hard to Do. Divorce is often messy but also sometimes for the best of both parties. Perhaps this separation will turn out to be that?

well..if you consider a breakup that could lead to bombings and killings as just "messy" then, okay.
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/2/18/18204269/brexit-irish-border-backstop-explained
tulc(which is a possible outcome of the hard border issue in Ireland)

 

[iluvatar5150]

Seems unlikely. We've already haemorrhaged $bns in costs and lost trade, and around 250,000 jobs, and counting. Probable outcomes include Scotland and (later) NI departing the UK, England entering into a kind of vaguely respectable but sad vassal role (like an old butler reduced to begging from tourists outside Buckingham palace) on the international stage followed by a gradual decline into the same kind of nostalgic mental dotage fueling the Tory leadership. The very wealthy will remain unaffected but it'll be pants for anyone else. And we'll have no barrier against the strange stuff you call food in the US and the even stranger notion of paying more for less healthcare. I'm just glad I don't live there anymore.

Oh, that's rich coming from the land of spotted dick in a can, black pudding, and $100 all-you-can-eat cucumber sandwich "teas".

I'm hardly an apologist for America's culinary predilections, but c'mon.

 

[Tom 1]

Oh, that's rich coming from the land of spotted dick in a can, black pudding, and $100 all-you-can-eat cucumber sandwich "teas".

I'm hardly an apologist for America's culinary predilections, but c'mon.

Hey, don’t get your crusts in a twist. And that’s a classic school dinner pudding you’re having a go at there. Just pointing out the predilection to stuff various kinds of refined sugar into just about anything (bread? Peanut butter? Why?), and the comparatively low standards of the meat production industry. There’s nothing to be gained from taking a low bottom end and dragging it down further.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Hey, don’t get your crusts in a twist. And that’s a classic school dinner pudding you’re having a go at there. Just pointing out the predilection to stuff various kinds of refined sugar into just about anything (bread? Peanut butter? Why?), and the comparatively low standards of the meat production industry. Nothing to gain from taking a low bottom end and dragging it down further.

Hey, at least our processed meats only use blood and suet (and sawdust) as filler, not base ingredients.

 

[Tom 1]

Hey, at least our processed meats only use blood and suet (and sawdust) as filler, not base ingredients.

UK sausages beat hotdogs and, yes, bratwurst any day. Sure there are cheap copies, but a good Cumberland sausage is just meat, pig gut and spices. Same for all the regional sausages.

 

[Goonie]

Oh, that's rich coming from the land of spotted dick in a can, black pudding, and $100 all-you-can-eat cucumber sandwich "teas".

I'm hardly an apologist for America's culinary predilections, but c'mon.

Now may I offer you a prairie oyster?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Now may I offer you a prairie oyster?

If you're shucking, I'll take a dozen.

 

[Nithavela]

Now may I offer you a prairie oyster?

I hope you're talking about the cocktail.

 

[grasping the after wind]

well..if you consider a breakup that could lead to bombings and killings as just "messy" then, okay.
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/2/18/18204269/brexit-irish-border-backstop-explained
tulc(which is a possible outcome of the hard border issue in Ireland)

Could is a funny word. Lots of things could lead to other things. There are innumerable coulds in the Irish relationship, as there are in any relationship, depending completely upon just what the Irish decide they will do within a new situation. If bombing and killings are what the Irish decide to do it is on them not on anyone or anything else. AFAIK Brexit was democratically arrived at so I think no one that is a non citizen of the UK has any business telling the people of the UK that they ought to think differently and deny themselves the right to make their own decisions in order to please those that disagree with those decisions. I don't appreciate it when foreign nationals tell me that my country is wrong for not wanting to change to please them and I won't be that rude to the people of the UK by imitating that sort of boorish behavior. Had the voting gone opposite I would have supported their decision just as I support their decision in the present case. People have the right to decide their own destiny when it comes to what governmental structure they adhere to. The people of the UK spoke so I will support their decision, wish them well , hope it turns out for the best and not stick my nose into their business. I would ask the same kindness in return.

 

[Tom 1]

If bombing and killings are what the Irish decide to do it is on them not on anyone or anything else. AFAIK Brexit was democratically arrived at so I think no one that is a non citizen of the UK has any business telling the people of the UK that they ought to think differently and deny themselves the right to make their own decisions in order to please those that disagree with those decisions

In the event of any bombings, were that to occur, it wouldn't matter who it is 'on'. That's not a helpful perspective. The concerns about a hard border in Ireland aren't simply about any actual violence that might occur as a result, at this point that is an unknown. The problem the EU negotiators, and a lot of other people, have with Boris Johnson's proposal is that he simply has no plan whatsoever for managing a post Brexit scenario. Saying that the technology to manage it somehow might exist in the future isn't a plan. Would you enter into a partnership with someone who assured you that he would uphold his share of responsibities only when or if it became possible for him to do so some time in the future? There's a simple, basic reality here that really isn't difficult to see: politicians like Boris and his mates simply say things that get people to vote for them. The truth or otherwise of those statements is utterly irrelevant.

Please note that the people of Northern Ireland are British citizens, as are the people of Scotland. 17m votes out of around 70m people is not what you could call a majority, even if you take off the non-voting population.

 

[Gregory95]

There is a reason the UK wishes to leave I would appreciate it if any English could chime in

 

[Gregory95]

By hard boarder they wil split north and south Ireland?

In the event of any bombings, were that to occur, it wouldn't matter who it is 'on'. That's not a helpful perspective. The concerns about a hard border in Ireland aren't simply about any actual violence that might occur as a result, at this point that is an unknown. The problem the EU negotiators, and a lot of other people, have with Boris Johnson's proposal is that he simply has no plan whatsoever for managing a post Brexit scenario. Saying that the technology to manage it somehow might exist in the future isn't a plan. Would you enter into a partnership with someone who assured you that he would uphold his share of responsibities only when or if it became possible for him to do so some time in the future? There's a simple, basic reality here that really isn't difficult to see: politicians like Boris and his mates simply say things that get people to vote for them. The truth or otherwise of those statements is utterly irrelevant.

Please note that the people of Northern Ireland are British citizens, as are the people of Scotland. 17m votes out of around 70m people is not what you could call a majority, even if you take off the non-voting population.

At the end of the day you are free to think what you like about it, imagination is a wonderful thing, but an alternative is to actually find things out.

 

[Tom 1]

By hard boarder they wil split north and south Ireland?

Yes, that's the idea. At the moment people can travel freely over the border to work or visit relatives etc. The idea isn't an actual physical barrier, but a process of checking goods, passport control etc., the kind of border we used to have across Europe prior to the formation of the EU. It's hard to say what it will lead to, but it will be a point of division that many people are seriously not ok with.