UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson calls on Germany and France to compromise on Brexit

[NightHawkeye]

PM Johnson calls on Germany and France to compromise on Brexit

“We will be ready to come out on Oct. 31 - deal or no deal,” Johnson told reporters. ... “I hope that they will compromise - they have seen that the UK parliament has three times rejected the Withdrawal Agreement, the backstop just doesn’t work, it is not democratic. I hope they will see fit to compromise.”​

 

[Tom 1]

PM Johnson calls on Germany and France to compromise on Brexit

“We will be ready to come out on Oct. 31 - deal or no deal,” Johnson told reporters. ... “I hope that they will compromise - they have seen that the UK parliament has three times rejected the Withdrawal Agreement, the backstop just doesn’t work, it is not democratic. I hope they will see fit to compromise.”​

Why should they? They didn't ask us to leave. The impact of a hard border in Ireland on many people's everyday lives would be bad enough, but it would also raise the very real spectre of the only recently (more or less) resolved conflict reigniting. All Boris' government has to offer is the vague assertion that at some point in the future the technology to manage some kind of virtual border might exist. Why would anyone take them seriously?
Ireland doesn't want a hard border. NI doesn't want a hard border. Boris simply doesn't give two hoots about it, and yet somehow he expects to be seen as a serious negotiating partner.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Why should they? They didn't ask us to leave. The impact of a hard border in Ireland on many people's everyday lives would be bad enough, but it would also raise the very real spectre of the only recently (more or less) resolved conflict reigniting. All Boris' government has to offer is the vague assertion that at some point in the future the technology to manage some kind of virtual border might exist. Why would anyone take them seriously?
Ireland doesn't want a hard border. NI doesn't want a hard border. Boris simply doesn't give two hoots about it, and yet somehow he expects to be seen as a serious negotiating partner.

Not up on what the hang ups are with the negotiations over there. Is a hard border between the two Irelands the only thing standing in the way?

 

[Tom 1]

Not up on what the hang ups are with the negotiations over there. Is a hard border between the two Irelands the only thing standing in the way?

No, but it's one of the major issues.

 

[Nithavela]

 

[grasping the after wind]

No, but it's one of the major issues.

Well I remember an old song called Breaking Up is Hard to Do. Divorce is often messy but also sometimes for the best of both parties. Perhaps this separation will turn out to be that?

 

[NightHawkeye]

Well I remember an old song called Breaking Up is Hard to Do.

Always liked it.

Divorce is often messy but also sometimes for the best of both parties. Perhaps this separation will turn out to be that?

We'll see. It's certainly been messy.

 

[Tom 1]

Well I remember an old song called Breaking Up is Hard to Do. Divorce is often messy but also sometimes for the best of both parties. Perhaps this separation will turn out to be that?

Seems unlikely. We've already haemorrhaged $bns in costs and lost trade, and around 250,000 jobs, and counting. Probable outcomes include Scotland and (later) NI departing the UK, England entering into a kind of vaguely respectable but sad vassal role (like an old butler reduced to begging from tourists outside Buckingham palace) on the international stage followed by a gradual decline into the same kind of nostalgic mental dotage fueling the Tory leadership. The very wealthy will remain unaffected but it'll be pants for anyone else. And we'll have no barrier against the strange stuff you call food in the US and the even stranger notion of paying more for less healthcare. I'm just glad I don't live there anymore.

 

[Tom 1]

Well I remember an old song called Breaking Up is Hard to Do. Divorce is often messy but also sometimes for the best of both parties. Perhaps this separation will turn out to be that?

To add to that I'm assuming on limited data that most divorces don't run the risk of reigniting a war with an underground terrorist operation.

 

[Ophiolite]

To add to that I'm assuming on limited data that most divorces don't run the risk of reigniting a war with an underground terrorist operation.

You didn't know my first wife then?

 

[Tom 1]

You didn't know my first wife then?

Sources indicate that war never actually had a ceasefire?

 

[Albion]

...a gradual decline into the same kind of nostalgic mental dotage fueling the Tory leadership. The very wealthy will remain unaffected but it'll be pants for anyone else. And we'll have no barrier against the strange stuff you call food in the US and the even stranger notion of paying more for less healthcare. I'm just glad I don't live there anymore.

Many of us have a much higher opinion of the British people. Brexit will free Britain to climb back out of the doldrums and regain her natural place in the world. There is no reason it cannot be.

If that isn't a guaranteed outcome, it still is the time to try rather than have the nation resign itself to being a permanent vassal of Germany.

 

[Nithavela]

Many of us have a much higher opinion of the British people. Brexit will free Britain to climb back out of the doldrums and regain her natural place in the world.

Now I'm curious. What's the natural place that Britain should regain?

 

[Tom 1]

Many of us have a much higher opinion of the British people. Brexit will free Britain to climb back out of the doldrums and regain her natural place in the world. There is no reason it cannot be.

If that isn't a guaranteed outcome, it still is the time to try rather than have the nation resign itself to being a permanent vassal of Germany.

That would be English people. Personally, I count on us having the sense to work for the future, not the past. Every stage of the advancement of England and the UK has involved redefining what it means to be English and what it means to be British. There are always some people who don’t like change, and others who are more than happy to capitalise on that. No offence, but knowing where you get your news from there’s little point in addressing your misunderstandings about the E.U.

 

[Albion]

That would be English people.

If your prediction that all the other parts of the UK would break off, you mean. I seriously doubt that that would happen.

Personally, I count on us having the sense to work for the future, not the past.

Exactly what I was saying in my previous post.

 

[Nithavela]

If your prediction that all the other parts of the UK would break off, you mean. I seriously doubt that that would happen.

Wales would propably stay in. North Ireland would propably stay true, but experience the troubles 2.0.

But Scotland? They'll be out within a year.

 

[Tom 1]

If your prediction that all the other parts of the UK would break off, you mean. I seriously doubt that that would happen.


Exactly what I was saying in my previous post.

It’s the English that voted to leave, and Wales, I should mention Wales although Welsh independence probably is unlikely. Nearly 45% voted for Scotland to leave the UK in the last referendum, seeing that slide over 50% in a post Brexit referendum wouldn’t be much of a surprise. The Catholic demographic in NI is growing faster than the Protestant, an eventual referendum to join the Republic seems inevitable, and Brexit might force the issue. It isn’t a foregone conclusion of course, but the bigger issue in Ireland is a lack of any plan to manage the border. The Tory leadership live in a bubble of their own ambitions, none of this is real for them. Any Brexiteer with any money and sense has already secured himself (they are mostly men) a second passport and business premises out of the UK. Sure the ‘British people’ will work hard to make other people rich - AKA Making Britain Great Again - they won’t have much choice.

 

[LionL]

Many of us have a much higher opinion of the British people. Brexit will free Britain to climb back out of the doldrums and regain her natural place in the world. There is no reason it cannot be.

Brexit will destroy this nation. Scotland and NI will leave the UK and England/Wales will be dominated by a hard-right govt.

If the unthinkable happens and Brexit goes ahead (seriously doubt it will) then it's the end of the UK. Me, and 20 million others will do our utmost to rejoin the EU ASAP.

If that isn't a guaranteed outcome, it still is the time to try rather than have the nation resign itself to being a permanent vassal of Germany.

Vassal of Germany? What rot!
I'd much rather us be a partner with our EU allies than a lapdog to the US.

 

[Albion]

I'd much rather us be a partner with our EU allies than a lapdog to the US.

Many's the time throughout our history when the UK pulled the strings on the USA, so I hardly think such a pessimistic view of your own country is correct. And suggesting that the fifth largest economy in the world will immediately become the "lapdog" of any other nation if there were no EU-type entanglements to make it so, seems just unrealistic.

 

[Goonie]

Many's the time throughout our history when the UK pulled the strings on the USA, so I hardly think such a pessimistic view of your own country is correct. And suggesting that the fifth largest economy in the world will immediately become the "lapdog" of any other nation if there were no EU-type entanglements to make it so, seems just unrealistic.

We are rushing into a US trade agreement that will see sovereignty surrendered in regard to employee/environmental regulations without even the presence of democratic oversight, with one group of faceless lawyers having the power to fine the UK billions if a UK govt dares to want to increase environmental regulation, or employee rights. A trade agreement where we are irrefutably the desperate party, ripe for being taken advantage off.