WHY IS THERE SO MANY WARNINGS FROM GOD'S WORD ABOUT LOSING SALVATION IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE??

[Presbyterian Continuist]

All I hear is your words denying God's Word as provided in the OP. If you make claims that something is out of context, you saying so does not make it so. Many say the same things in empty statement when confronted with scripture that disagrees with what they believe, because they are not willing to address the scriptures that have been provided and only sent in love to those who have ears to hear.

If you believe something is taken out of context then prove your claims. If you cannot why not believe the scriptures provided? They are God's Word not mine. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow Him.

A course in Biblical Exegesis and Hermeneutics would benefit you. Of course, one has to be teachable in attitude to really benefit from it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

A course in Biblical Exegesis and Hermeneutics would benefit you. Of course, one has to be teachable in attitude to really benefit from it.

1 CORINTHIANS 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Your trying to argue that no one can understand God's Word without going to men to teach you to understand it. This is not biblical.

The new covenant promise states that we can only know Gods Word as God reveals it to us *1 CORINTHIANS 2:14. If we do not know God and God is not our teacher you will never know God or have an understanding of the scriptures. We can only know God's Word as we ask God to guide and teach us as we continue in His Word *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 6:63; JOHN 8:31-36.

 

[JIMINZ]

So you do not believe all scripture is written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; MATTHEW 4:4; 1 CORINTHIANS 10:11 and we are to live by every word of it and God is the God of the living and not the dead?

What is it that makes you think, we are the ones on whom the ends of the world have come, is it because we are still alive and Jesus hasn't returned yet?

Look at it this way, Christians at the end of the first millennium (1,000 AD) expected Jesus to return at that time He didn't, they believed the same as you,

"all scripture is written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come"

We are now in the second millennium 2,000 AD and He still hasn't returned yet.

The question then is, if they believed such a thing, and it wasn't true and He still hasn't returned up until the last time I checked, how can you say as they of old time said,

"all scripture is written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come"

What is it that makes your belief true and theirs false.

I say Jesus was not speaking to you but to the ELECT the Jews of that time which were Prophesied to accept Him as Messiah and Savior, they are the ones on who the Ends of the World had Come.

Paul said (OUR ADMONITION) meaning him and those he was speaking to, not those 2,000 yrs. in the future. It was a present tense statement about a Present tense event.

 

[JIMINZ]

trying to argue that no one can understand God's Word without going to men to teach you to understand it. This is not biblical.

What then is the purpose of your thread then, aren't you attempting to teach everyone who has answered your OP?

Which means according to you.

Everyone can understand Gods' word without listening to you.

 

[Sam91]

I believe all scripture. What I don’t believe is when you take scripture of of context, and ignore other scripture, to force your false gospel that Paul warned about in Galatians.

Ha! Galatians. I see that you also thought of the same verse I did but from the opposite side of the coin.

 

[Sam91]

@Hazelelponi (can't quote your post #182 from page 10)

The wayward son did despise himself for his actions though. He knew he was undeserving and desired to throw himself at his father's feet. He wasn't expecting his father's mercy and to be treated with so much grace. He was humbled and wanted to be under his Father's protection and willing to live under whatever circumstances his father saw fit. It does sound like a change of heart, even if life was pretty bad before he lost his pride.

It speaks more to me of the Father's mercy and our shortcomings, both as wayward individuals and as self-righteous pigs. The other brother is also a warning to me.

As someone who has been examining how pitiful my repentance actually is of late, this actually gives me hope in this instance. It reminds me that His mercy is more.

 

[Sam91]

I know God, within the limits of my capacity.. I'm just a disabled person who doesnt have lots of fruit opportunities, and am just a normal person.

I believe the most basic thing we do is Trust in Christ for our salvation, and not in ourselves.

You have fruit on CF. I have benefitted from your presence. I have seen the fruit of the Spirit in your tone. God has used your posts to minister to me and probably to many others.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What then is the purpose of you thread then, aren't you attempting to teach everyone who has answered you OP?

Which means according to you.

Everyone can understand Gods' word without listening to you.

in support of your post:
There are two categories of people who approach the Bible.
1. Those who begin with their own premise of what they want to impress upon people and then cherry pick and fit verses into it that suit their purpose.
2. Those who want to explore the depth of God's Word and base their approach to God and doctrine on what they discover in the Bible.

The first usually quote verses out of context to try and prove their point, but any serious student of Scripture quite easily sees through that when they merely examine the verse in its original context. They find that the "proof" verse doesn't actually say anything to support what the person is trying to prove!

The second is not out to prove anything. They may quote the same verse, but they share the meaning of it in its original context and show how it can be applied to address the issue in hand.

This is where exegesis comes in. All exegesis is, to examine it in its original culture, the place in history, who spoke it, who were the listeners or readers, what was the author's intention, and how did the original listeners understand what was being written or spoken to them. Only when there is a full understanding of this, can we progress on to whether it can be applied directly to us or the issue presented. I believe that this is the way the Holy Spirit assists us into getting clear insight into Scripture.

The next step is what we call hermeneutics. This is the process by which we determine the application of the Scripture to us in the 21st Century. Once we have done the exegesis, we then determine whether the verse is culture dependent or transcultural. Cultural dependent verses are limited to the culture in which they were written, and are for our education, but not direct instruction to us. Transcultural verses apply as much to us in the 21st Century as they did in the original cultural setting they were written.

John 3:16 is transcultural. It applies to all cultures. But Paul's statement: "A woman should have her head covered when she prays or prophesies" is culture dependent, because the majority of women do not wear head coverings to church; also, many churches don't allow women to speak in church, so the verse would have no meaning for them. Furthermore, churches that don't believe in the modern use of the prophetic gift would also see that verse as being meaningless to them.

I am involved in a debate on another thread concerning the Tower of Babel and the gift of tongues, where the OP compares them. But a sound exegesis of the events around Babel, show that it was a one-off event for a particular reason and quite unrelated to the 1 Corinthians 14 description of the gift of tongues. When we do an exegesis of 1 Corinthians 14, we see that Paul was writing about the use of tongues and prophecy in church meetings, not the nature of it, and that tongues involves praying to God, not speaking to men, and so we see that Babel has nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 14 tongues. I don't mean to start a debate on this thread about that. All I am doing here is showing how exegesis and hermeneutics helps us to understand and apply Scripture.

there are those who think they can change people's minds by quoting Scripture at them, using capital letters, bold print and different colours - as if the words of Scripture has some magical power in itself to change the will of others. In my opinion, using Scripture in this way is plain sorcery and witchcraft, in the same way that those who use positive confession and faith as forces in themselves to get what they want.

The Scripture says that faith comes by hearing the word of God. The context is that it is faith in God for salvation and faith in the Holy Spirit's ability to assist us to live holy lives before Him. True faith points us to Christ, because the Scripture points us to Christ.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Well that is not true. What did you prove? Nothing. You claim that one cannot lose salvation but refuse to address HEBREWS 6:4-8 and the scriptures provided in the OP. This was demonstrated in post # 195 linked that you chose to ignore and not address. I am happy to discuss everything with you but it seems you do not wish to address the posts and scriptures provided to you or answer the questions asked of you. If this is the case it is true we cannot have a decent discussion and may have to agree to disagree.

Your response...

It’s not referring to believers.

No it is referring to those who were believers that became unbelievers *HEBREWS 6:4-8.

I explained why.

No you didn't. Where? You simply ignored the post the scriptures posted in post # 195 linked

Christ won’t lose any sheep given to Him by His Father.

Nobody said he would. God's Sheep are all those who believe and follow God's Word. Those who fall away and depart the faith are no longer believing and following God's Word.

The Trinity won’t be divided.

Indeed they are one with one purpose and one mind expressed through God's Word. Those who reject God's Word deny God and in return God will deny them.

If you want to put the Godhead against itself, that’s on you.

Your words are not God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

And since the Son is obedient to His Father, then there is no loss of salvation.

The Son is indeed obedient to the father. The rest of your sentense is simply more of your words which are not God's Word as already shown in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and demonstrated in post # 195 linked.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jews who heard the word and were interested at first, but never really believed.

Nope. All these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come *1 CORINTHIANS 10:11. In the NEW COVENANT a JEW is not one outwardly just the same as circumcision is not outwardly in the flesh. A JEW is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter *ROMANS 2:28-29

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is it that makes you think, we are the ones on whom the ends of the world have come, is it because we are still alive and Jesus hasn't returned yet?

Look at it this way, Christians at the end of the first millennium (1,000 AD) expected Jesus to return at that time He didn't, they believed the same as you,

"all scripture is written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come"

We are now in the second millennium 2,000 AD and He still hasn't returned yet.

The question then is, if they believed such a thing, and it wasn't true and He still hasn't returned up until the last time I checked, how can you say as they of old time said,

"all scripture is written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come"

What is it that makes your belief true and theirs false.

I say Jesus was not speaking to you but to the ELECT the Jews of that time which were Prophesied to accept Him as Messiah and Savior, they are the ones on who the Ends of the World had Come.

Paul said (OUR ADMONITION) meaning him and those he was speaking to, not those 2,000 yrs. in the future. It was a present tense statement about a Present tense event.

God is not the God of the dead but of the living *MATTHEW 22:32. What do you think these scriptures mean?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What then is the purpose of your thread then, aren't you attempting to teach everyone who has answered your OP?

Which means according to you.

Everyone can understand Gods' word without listening to you.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not hear and do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word). Those who do not are not His Sheep.

 

[JIMINZ]

God is not the God of the dead but of the living *MATTHEW 22:32. What do you think these scriptures mean?

Your statement and use of Mat. 22:32 makes absolutely no sense, and is not related to anything I said in my post as a reasonable rebuttal from you.

How do you personally apply Mat. 22:32 to my post?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your statement and use of Mat. 22:32 makes absolutely no sense, and is not related to anything I said in my post as a reasonable rebuttal from you.

How do you personally apply Mat. 22:32 to my post?

It actually makes sense and was in reference to your previous post. I gather you do not know what it means or how it applies to your last post. The end of the World for the living is at death or the second coming. Gods' Word is for the living (now). Afterwards when your probation of life is closed it is too late. The application of the scriptures to only those who are dead and not the living denies God's Word and is not biblical and is a worldly application of the scriptures that has no truth in it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@JIMINZ why you think Gods Word is funny?

Your statement and use of Mat. 22:32 makes absolutely no sense, and is not related to anything I said in my post as a reasonable rebuttal from you.

How do you personally apply Mat. 22:32 to my post?

Why are you trying to say that God's Word is for the dead and not the living? That is not biblical.

 

[Hammster]

Your response...

No it is referring to those who were believers that became unbelievers *HEBREWS 6:4-8.

No you didn't. Where? You simply ignored the post the scriptures posted in post # 195 linked

Nobody said he would. God's Sheep are all those who believe and follow God's Word. Those who fall away and depart the faith are no longer believing and following God's Word.

Indeed they are one with one purpose and one mind expressed through God's Word. Those who reject God's Word deny God and in return God will deny them.

Your words are not God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

The Son is indeed obedient to the father. The rest of your sentense is simply more of your words which are not God's Word as already shown in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and demonstrated in post # 195 linked.

Hope this helps.

Once again you’ve demonstrated that it’s our actions that make us righteous. It’s our actions that make us sheep and because of that, it makes the Father want to give us to the Son. Why you would deny this is beyond me.

 

[Hammster]

Nope. All these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come *1 CORINTHIANS 10:11. In the NEW COVENANT a JEW is not one outwardly just the same as circumcision is not outwardly in the flesh. A JEW is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter *ROMANS 2:28-29

I think you missed the point. I don’t think you’ve ever really read Hebrews except for a few verses. The letter was written to Jews. It was to them. That’s the context. And it’s why I’ve said that you pretty much ignore context.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Once again you’ve demonstrated that it’s our actions that make us righteous. It’s our actions that make us sheep and because of that, it makes the Father want to give us to the Son. Why you would deny this is beyond me.

Well that is not true. There you go again making things up no one has ever said or believes.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think you missed the point. I don’t think you’ve ever really read Hebrews except for a few verses. The letter was written to Jews. It was to them. That’s the context. And it’s why I’ve said that you pretty much ignore context.

Of course I have read HEBREWS. You denying the scriptures posted there earlier does not make them go away. The context of HEBREWS 6:4-8 is BELIEVERS becoming UNBELIEVERS and returing to a life of sin. This is demonstrated verse by verse in post # 195 linked that you refuse to respond to or believe.

 

[Hammster]

Well that is not true. There you go again making things up no one has ever said or believes.

You just said it. It’s there for all to read.