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☦Marius☦

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If I wouldn't say that it would mean that I won't say what God says about me.

Perhaps you are so steeped in traditions and teachings other than the scriptures that you don't know or perhaps just not believe what they say about salvation being in the past tense.

You seem to be the embodiment of why I would preach the gospel to a person of your persuasion even if he was an Orthodox priest or from Catholicism even if he was a bishop or the pope.

I sincerely hope that those who are merely hoping to be saved some day will have that supposed faith reckoned to them as righteousness. Time will tell. In the mean time I'll continue to preach the gospel of salvation in the here and now and invite people to enter into all God has for them through direct access to Him through His promised Spirit Who will never leave us or forsake us.

I am curious to know how you feel about the fact that every early church leader, martyr, and writer who was part of the church of the apostles, backs up the Orthodox opinion on these things. I read these men's writings and I see my exact beliefs, beliefs you apparently disagree with.

So tell me this? IF these men, who were killed for their faith, and all those for the 1800 years before your specific denominations popped up (non denomination is in itself included in this), then I suppose the Church is a complete failure and all the first through third century martyrs died for a false belief system. Do you seriously think that the men who studied directly under the apostles didn't understand their teachings as much as you?
 
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GenemZ

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There is only one church, and it didn't start in the 1800s with the latter revival movement. Call your congregation what you will but Christ founded one Church with the twelve apostles who set up a structure that has stood for 2000 years. People break away, people form their own sects- But there is only one Church, as there is only one truth.

And, many fail to find truth. Instead, they seek a system that appeals to their own liking, sir. You found yours.
 
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GenemZ

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Philippians 2:12
Consequently, my beloved ones, just as you have always obeyed, not only during my presence but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


What does that mean to you?
 
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☦Marius☦

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Hush up please with making claims that you can not validate...

Or, put it in context. Show us what that passage on acceptable religion is to God means. Can you?

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
from being polluted by the world."
Ja 1:27
That's the kind of "religion" God approves of. You're saying that's not so?

I was saying that Christianity has a different emphasis.


The following is about Christianity. (Its not about following rituals and traditions.)

"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers
will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are
the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.


God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and
in truth.
Jn 4:23-24


How is he saying that isn't so? Keeping oneself from being polluted from the world can mean all kinds of things. Remember the cleanliness laws of the OT? Would that also not apply? Did Christ not keep the Judaic traditions as well as the apostles? Did any of them break the Law? Was Paul not a proud Pharisee until his death boldly claiming he kept the fullness of the Law? So tell me how the early church, who taught in the synagogues, somehow managed to also completely remove themselves from Judaic Traditions and Religion, while also somehow keeping the fullness of the Law?

Orthodoxy itself was just the Jewish tradition modified after the Christians were kicked out of the synagogues. And to improve gentile understanding.
 
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☦Marius☦

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What does that mean to you?
Exactly what it says. Feel free to comment on the other verses as well since they say various other things disproving "once saved always saved."
 
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charsan

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Hush up please with making claims that you can not validate...

Or, put it in context. Show us what that passage on acceptable religion is to God means. Can you?

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
from being polluted by the world."
Ja 1:27
That's the kind of "religion" God approves of. You're saying that's not so?

I was saying that Christianity has a different emphasis.


The following is about Christianity. (Its not about following rituals and traditions.)

"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers
will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are
the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.


God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and
in truth.
Jn 4:23-24


You hush with your evangelical nonsense, your on ignore. I don't need to deal with lies anymore
 
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☦Marius☦

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And, many fail to find truth. Instead, they seek a system that appeals to their own liking, sir. You found yours.
Yes, I found the grace of the Church that kept me from killing myself over the depression given to me by being brought up in a system of lies. Do you know how much mental illness and apostasy has been caused by Protestantism and evangelical movements?
You hush with your evangelical nonsense, your on ignore. I don't need to deal with lies anymore
You may as well get used to it, there are hundreds of them on this forum. He will simply see it as you "blocking out the truth" or something.
 
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charsan

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You may as well get used to it, there are hundreds of them on this forum. He will simply see it as you "blocking out the truth" or something.

Very true.

On edit: It boggles my mind the lies and heresies allowed on the forums
 
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☦Marius☦

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Either way I think this thread should be closed. Its gone far past bearing any fruit and we will only keep butting heads getting ever more worked up. All this other stuff is off topic anyway. Why people from churches without Bishops are even involved in the discussion is beyond me.
 
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dzheremi

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I hate to say it, because it was really informative before the descent of "those who know better because they just do", but I have to agree with our Eastern Orthodox friend Marius. This is something of a nightmare, or at least a shame. Coulda been a good thread all the way through.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I'll see you all on the congregational forums and the Traditional Theology subforum, where shenanigans like what has gone on here are not expected to be welcome or given equal footing with those who can scripturally and patristically support what they say.
 
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W2L

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Philippians 2:12
Consequently, my beloved ones, just as you have always obeyed, not only during my presence but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters,adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Galatians 5:19-21
(speaking to his already baptized flock) Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left

Hebrews 6:4-6
For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.

2 Peter 2:20-21
Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received.

John 15:1-6
I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. for apart from me you can do nothing at all. If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:17-22
However, if some of the branches were broken off and you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the richness of the olive’s root, the branches. If, though, you are arrogant toward them, remember that you do not bear the root, but the root bears you but you are standing by faith. Do not be haughty, but be in fear. and severity. There is severity toward those who fell, but toward you there is God’s kindness, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise, you too will be lopped off.


What are you talking about when you say the race has no beginning? Of course it has a beginning. In faith coming into Christ's church and being baptized, being born anew, and hopefully growing in the faith and not leaving it.

I am talking about evangelicals, many of whom are also protestant. I don't understand how that doesn't make sense. You can't just say I am giving muddled truths without any evidence or explanation to the contrary. You conveniently ignore the scripture I am posting. I believed the same exact thing every southern Baptist evangelical believes. You keep talking about verb tenses of salvation but seem to ignore the context of the word salvation used. Any time it is used in the present tense it is used to speak of salvation from sin, not necessarily eternal. Salvation from the passions and salvation of life eternal are two different things. Paul distinguishes between the two.



There is only one church, and it didn't start in the 1800s with the latter revival movement. Call your congregation what you will but Christ founded one Church with the twelve apostles who set up a structure that has stood for 2000 years. People break away, people form their own sects- But there is only one Church, as there is only one truth.
As I said, we must have fake churches if you're right.
 
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Not David

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I might ask this thread to be closed, I wasn't even looking to debate.
To end on a positive note, here is Taylor Swift with a cat.
taylor swift cat.jpg
 
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☦Marius☦

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Edit: That cat does not look very positive...positively terrified, maybe... :help:
I bet Taylor so positively reeks of red flags that even a cat is terrified ^_^
 
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GenemZ

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How is he saying that isn't so? Keeping oneself from being polluted from the world can mean all kinds of things. Remember the cleanliness laws of the OT? Would that also not apply?

So they were supposed to go to the temple to be purified? That is what the Law prescribed. A woman having her period would have to be ceremonially cleansed afterwards?

And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons
and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:29


How were the Gentile believers ever to do that if we are to believe your claim about cleanliness?? What about the church told they can eat any foods now, but the Law saw them as unclean? How can that work with your scenario? Looks like .... you just made something up, with that. Didn't you? Its not well thought out. You seem to not understand the cleanliness laws.


Did Christ not keep the Judaic traditions as well as the apostles?

Yes... before the church age began they were all living as Jews should under the Law.



Did any of them break the Law? Was Paul not a proud Pharisee until his death boldly claiming he kept the fullness of the Law? So tell me how the early church, who taught in the synagogues, somehow managed to also completely remove themselves from Judaic Traditions and Religion, while also somehow keeping the fullness of the Law?

Paul was almost murdered in the Temple because the Jews heard how Paul was teaching we were no longer to live under the Law. Acts 21:27-30.

When is the last time you read your Bible?
 
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☦Marius☦

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So they were supposed to go to the temple to be purified? That is what the Law prescribed. A woman having her period would have to be ceremonially cleansed afterwards?

And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons
and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.
Lev 15:29


How were the Gentile believers ever to do that if we are to believe your claim about cleanliness?? What about the church told they can eat any foods now, but the Law saw them as unclean? How can that work with your scenario? Looks like .... you just made something up, with that. Didn't you? Its not well thought out. You seem to not understand the cleanliness laws.




Yes... before the church age began they were all living as Jews should under the Law.





Paul was almost murdered in the Temple because the Jews heard how Paul was teaching we were no longer to live under the Law. Acts 21:27-30.

When is the last time you read your Bible?

Tempting as it is to reply to some of these statements, if you've noticed we have decided to close this debate. If you want to open another thread about this other topic than do so.

I will say though that you misunderstood the point I was making.
 
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☦Marius☦

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