ICR Acts and Facts

[lasthero]

Well as Jesus warned more about hell than He did about encouraging heaven, maybe I am being a good witness.

This is actually factually untrue.

Look it up. I dare you.

 

[nolidad]

Except that that's not the case and science shows that theory of evolution is a tenable, workable scientific theory.
What you suggest is that for over a century, scientists across the globe, in every nation, have been lying.

Not in the least!

Sientists since the popularization of evolution have just been believing what they were indoctrinated to believe in! They don't think it is a lie, that have been taught to think that way!

do I believe macro evolution a lie? Absolutely- and basic sciwence and biology shows it to be so!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Not in the least!

Sientists since the popularization of evolution have just been believing what they were indoctrinated to believe in! They don't think it is a lie, that have been taught to think that way!

do I believe macro evolution a lie? Absolutely- and basic sciwence and biology shows it to be so!

You're not really disproving what I'm saying. You are just repeating a wildly held conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory that requires every scientists across the globe, from all walks of life, of all different faiths and beliefs, for over a century.
And it's a conspiracy theory that you cannot prove to be true.

 

[nolidad]

No, just a bad Bible reader. That statement is entirely false.

Did Jesus talk more about HELL than He did Heaven? - Ed Elliott - Medium

The Uncomfortable Subject Jesus Addressed More than Anyone Else

7 Truths About Hell

The fact your author fails to mention the numerous times Jesus spoke of gehenna, sheol, hades, the outer darkness, place of wailing and gnashing of teeth, place of torment, judgment, and many other terms Bible believing Christians know describe hell- will skew the score badly!

 

[nolidad]

You're not really disproving what I'm saying. You are just repeating a wildly held conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory that requires every scientists across the globe, from all walks of life, of all different faiths and beliefs, for over a century.
And it's a conspiracy theory that you cannot prove to be true.

so then you must believe all YEC scientists are lying to the people then! Same myth, with the shoe on the other foot! Maybe your projecting your own beliefs onto me! for I don't think they are lying (at least intentionally)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

so then you must believe all YEC scientists are lying to the people then! Same myth, with the shoe on the other foot! Maybe your projecting your own beliefs onto me! for I don't think they are lying (at least intentionally)

Oh, I very much know they belief what they say, and I doubt that many of them aren't intentionally lying. Ignorance should not be confused for malice (lying in this case), but the evidence of God's created world does not support their claims. And I believe thoroughly that God's actual creation, the world He created, and the actual study of His creation is of more import than those who claim that the word of men, the Bible, is more important that His creation.

 

[nolidad]

Oh, I very much know they belief what they say, and I doubt that many of them aren't intentionally lying. Ignorance should not be confused for malice (lying in this case), but the evidence of God's created world does not support their claims. And I believe thoroughly that God's actual creation, the world He created, and the actual study of His creation is of more import than those who claim that the word of men, the Bible, is more important that His creation.

So it appears you do not believe God communicated with His children and they wrote it down then?

What do you believe about God then and Why? Guess work? Feelings? How do you even know if God cfreated this if you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

 

[nolidad]

This is actually factually untrue.

Look it up. I dare you.

I did! eternal torment beats eternal bliss!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So it appears you do not believe God communicated with His children and they wrote it down then?

What do you believe about God then and Why? Guess work? Feelings? How do you even know if God cfreated this if you do not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

I'm not here to argue religion or faith. That's not what this thread is about.
But I do know that this world was created by God, and actual scientists have a much better understanding of it than the folks at the ICR.

 

[nolidad]

No, just a bad Bible reader. That statement is entirely false.

Did Jesus talk more about HELL than He did Heaven? - Ed Elliott - Medium

My guys beat your guy sorry! See we who follow Jesus knows when he is talking about hell in t

 

[nolidad]

I'm not here to argue religion or faith. That's not what this thread is about.
But I do know that this world was created by God, and actual scientists have a much better understanding of it than the folks at the ICR.

How do you know God created? If eh bible is a book written by men without God inspoiring them- what revelation do you have that God created?

Well as the folks at ICR are all scientists that point is moot. You read their testimonies and those at AIG and CRS- the majority of them fled evolution when their research showed them evolution is impossible!

 

[VirOptimus]

This is a creation forum thread and you can't talk about creation without the Creator!

But you arent talking about creation you are just threatening me with eternal torment (heh) because I dont deny reality.

 

[Yttrium]

.

nolidad, buddy, help me out here. No, I'm not replying to your last post. Back on the topic of the thread, I looked up another ICR article, and I'm stumbling on their first of five pieces of evidence for a young Earth.

Five Global Evidences for a Young Earth

"This 10-million-year estimate is comparable to the 14 million years that creation scientists calculated would be needed for all the continents to be planed down to sea level.2 Skeptics have criticized this argument, saying it naively assumes erosion rates have been perfectly constant over time. They also claim it fails to take into account factors such as mountain building and lava flows that can replace some of the eroded material.

Yes, the above calculation did assume a constant rate of erosion, but only to get a ballpark estimate, not to obtain an exact answer. Secular geologists have performed more sophisticated calculations that take into account factors such as climate, slope of the terrain, etc. These calculations still yield erosion rates fast enough to plane down the continents in just tens of millions of years."

Can they really do an estimate like that when plate tectonics are taken into account? With plates moving maybe 10-160 mm a year, I know that doesn't sound like much, but over 10 million years, that's a lot of movement and a lot of ground being pushed up.

The other problem I have is that average erosion is not universal erosion. Softer dirt is going to erode much faster than something like granite. So an average erosion rate isn't going to come anywhere close to planing the planet, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

How do you know God created? If eh bible is a book written by men without God inspoiring them- what revelation do you have that God created?

Well as the folks at ICR are all scientists that point is moot. You read their testimonies and those at AIG and CRS- the majority of them fled evolution when their research showed them evolution is impossible!

I'm not going to get drawn into a theological debate on this.

And I so what if all the 'folks' at ICR are all scientists? A minuscule amount of American scientists already having preset religious convictions does not overturn a world's worth and a centuries worth of scientific discovery and testing.

 

[Speedwell]

The Uncomfortable Subject Jesus Addressed More than Anyone Else

7 Truths About Hell

The fact your author fails to mention the numerous times Jesus spoke of gehenna, sheol, hades, the outer darkness, place of wailing and gnashing of teeth, place of torment, judgment, and many other terms Bible believing Christians know describe hell- will skew the score badly!

Did you really count them all yourself or do you just like it as a soundbite?

 

[Astrophile]

Well let us use the smallest estimates (11-81km in diam) and (1X10 to the 15th to 4.6 X 10 to the 17th kg.)

Are these the estimates for the diameter and mass of the Chicxulub impactor? By the way, note the spelling of Chicxulub.

So an asteroid larger than Manhattan, weighing 10,000,000,000,000,000 kg or 10,000,000,000,000 tons hitting the earth at c. 22,000 mph would cause a nuclear type winter for decades! That size, weight and speed would crack the mantle and cause massive tectonic and volcanic activity! It would spew billions of tons of ejecta into the atmosphere (not including the ash and toxins from the volcanoes it produced). This would be a near global killer! And if chixalub was one of the smaller as you say- then we have had many global killers hit the earth! Hard for evolution to thrive when asteroids are nearly wiping out all the species.

Manhattan Island is about 20 km long and about 3 km wide. I can get the mass of approximately 10^16 kg by assuming a spherical impactor with a diameter of 20 km and a density of about 2500 kg/m³, but not for an impactor with the shape and dimensions of Manhattan Island. A mass of 10^16 kg with v = 22,000 mph (9.8 km/s) would have an energy E = 4.8×10^23 J, or about 40,000 times the energy of the largest earthquakes. Calculations of the scaling of the size of impact craters suggest that such an impact would make a crater with D ~ 230-250 km, much larger than Chicxulub, similar to the largest estimates for Sudbury, and not much smaller than Vredefort.

Chicxulub was not one of the smaller craters. No other authentic impact craters of the size of Chicxulub, let alone of the size of the crater produced by your supposed 'super-Manhattan' impact, have been identified in Phanerozoic or even in Middle or Late Proterozoic rocks, so we need not worry about their effects on the evolution of multi-cellular life-forms.

To suppose that any such impact has occurred during human history is, to put it bluntly, absurd. As you say, the impact would be a global killer, with no advanced life-forms surviving, and the crater could not possibly have escaped notice.

Remember them little thecodonts they say we came from could not survive in a hibernatory state long enough for plants and seeds to regrow! It took several years for the flora around Mt. St. Helens to start to regrow and that was a sparkler compared to chixalub.

The thecodonts were primitive archosaurs that lived during the Triassic period; they were more closely related to the dinosaurs than to mammals. Perhaps you are thinking of therapsids.

 

[Speedwell]

How do you know God created? If eh bible is a book written by men without God inspoiring them- what revelation do you have that God created?

Of course you are viewing this through the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura but you are also burdened by the assumption that if Genesis is not 100% accurate literal history then God could not have inspired it. That's fine if that's what you want to believe, but nobody else has to.

Looking from the outside the situation is not the same. All we see is that the conclusions of modern science interfere with the theology of an eccentric Protestant minority sect. Why should we care? If modern science agreed with YECism but interfered with the theology of some other similar Protestant sect, the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses, say, how much would you care? Would you believe them when they complained that science must be a conspiracy to deny the existence of God?

 

[Astrophile]

All of them are the result of God cursing the universe, just like supernovae! How God started the process? don't know. I could speculate but it is just speculation, or if I was a scientist it wold be relabeled a hypothesis.

How do you know that meteors, meteorites and supernovae are the result of God cursing the universe?

I do know that god ordered the natural laws and all things function according to to those laws. So a meteor will be attracted by gravity and be pulled into the object that is pulling on it! etc.etc.

Meteoroids, asteroids and comets are all in heliocentric orbits There is no reason for them to be pulled into the Sun, although they can collide with other planets in the course of their normal orbits.

 

[Astrophile]

IF (and it is still just an if) the chixalub strike was a cause of the flood:
1. It happened halfway around the world
2. It caused massive water to spew from subterranean caverns
3. It caused massive particulate matter to have vapor to condense and form rain on a massive scale (remember it had not rained before)
4. By the time the consequences reached Noah they would have diminished by the massive amounts of water involved.

This is fantasy.
1. There are no subterranean caverns that contain enough water to flood the whole world.
2. The atmosphere does not contain and never has contained enough water to flood the whole world. At present water vapour forms a maximum of 1.7% of the atmosphere by weight, or 9×10^16 kg; this would produce a layer of water about 17.6 cm, or 7", thick.
3. Fossil raindrop impressions have been found in Archaean rocks, with an age of 2.7 billion years - www.washington.edu/news/2012/03/28/fossil-raindrop-impressions-imply-greenhouse-gases-loaded-early-atmosphere/
4. The main effects of the Chicxulub impact would have been reduction of sunlight, and the stopping of photosynthesis, by the enormous amount of ejecta from the crater hurled into the upper atmosphere.
5. If the Chicxulub impact had occurred during human history, the crater would still be obvious; it would not have required years of drilling and microscopic examination of rock samples to establish that the rocks were produced by an impact.

Well, why don't you ask God yourself and see if He will tell you why there are millions of rocks. I can only give you the first cause!

Not only are there millions of rocks in the asteroid belt; more than 100 fossil meteorites have been found in southern Sweden in Lower Ordovician rocks, which were deposited more than 400 million years before the Chicxulub impact. Recently fossil micrometeorites were recovered from Upper Cretaceous chalk (about 87 Myr old), which was deposited more than 20 million years before the Chicxulub impact - see Fossilised micrometeorites revealed - Science - Diamond Light Source . This shows that meteors and meteorites existed long before the time of Adam and Eve.

 

[Gene2memE]

Well let us use the smallest estimates (11-81km in diam) and (1X10 to the 15th to 4.6 X 10 to the 17th kg.)

So an asteroid larger than Manhattan, weighing 10,000,000,000,000,000 kg or 10,000,000,000,000 tons hitting the earth at c. 22,000 mph would cause a nuclear type winter for decades! That size, weight and speed would crack the mantle and cause massive tectonic and volcanic activity! It would spew billions of tons of ejecta into the atmosphere (not including the ash and toxins from the volcanoes it produced). This would be a near global killer! And if chixalub was one of the smaller as you say- then we have had many global killers hit the earth! HArd for evolution to thrive when asteroids are nearly wiping out all the species.

remember them little thecodonts they say we came from could not survive in a hibernatory state long enough for plants and seeds to regrow! It took several years for the flora around Mt. St. Helens to start to regrow and that was a sparkler compared to chixalub.

Gosh, it's almost as if you completely failed to do any of the basic research:

Can you spot the Chicxulub impact on the above?