Small minority of the Elect make it to Heaven

[dlamberth]

Where?

When we were all indigenous.

 

[trophy33]

I can understand if the question makes you uncomfortable. I'm sure you'd rather not think about it more than you have to.

You do not understand that nobody is able to say what he would do if he would be somebody else. And living in different era would make us to be somebody else. So these theories are useless. Maybe you would be the most cruel slave owner in the land.

So is your moral ambivalence to owning another human being based on scripture?

I do not think so.

Is your view of good and wrong based on today's American culture?

 

[awitch]

You do not understand that nobody is able to say what he would do if he would be somebody else. And living in different era would make us to be somebody else. So these theories are useless. Maybe you would be the most cruel slave owner in the land.

I'm not talking about being someone else in another time. I'm talking about you personally in this time.

Is your view of good and wrong based on today's American culture?

Definitely not. There is much about American culture that I do not approve of. My sense of right and wrong is based on common sense, understanding how the natural world actually works, cause and effect, and our collective experience.

 

[trophy33]

I'm talking about you personally in this time.

Right now, no.

My sense of right and wrong is based on common sense

Where do you get your common sense from.

understanding how the natural world actually works, cause and effect

What do you mean by the natural world - animals and their behaviour?

and our collective experience.

There is no "our", 7 billion people have very different collective experiences, dependant on where they live, with whom and how.

 

[awitch]

Right now, no.

Because it's not legal?

Where do you get your common sense from.

The same as everyone else. We perceive, attempt to understand, and make a judgement call based on what we know. It's not perfect because of incomplete knowledge, but we can learn from negative outcomes and adjust should the situation arise again.

What do you mean by the natural world - animals and their behaviour?

Science in general. The ability to see or predict cause and affect.

There is no "our", 7 billion people have very different collective experiences, dependant on where they live, with whom and how.

But we can look at how things worked out for a society and compare it to our own. We can look at changes and progress and learn from those experiences. We can look at history and learn about what works and what doesn't.

 

[trophy33]

Because it's not legal?

Its not legal in my country and I have no reason or need for it.

The same as everyone else. We perceive, attempt to understand, and make a judgement call based on what we know. It's not perfect because of incomplete knowledge, but we can learn from negative outcomes and adjust should the situation arise again.

Various people have various common senses. Dependent on where they live, what their values are etc.

Science in general. The ability to see or predict cause and affect.

How do you get moral values from science?

But we can look at how things worked out for a society and compare it to our own. We can look at changes and progress and learn from those experiences. We can look at history and learn about what works and what doesn't.

Last century was the worst in the history of mankind. Let us see how we will act in this one.

 

[awitch]

Its not legal in my country and I have no reason or need for it.

Would you support a movement to legalize slavery?

Various people have various common senses. Dependent on where they live, what their values are etc.

We use our ability to reason to avoid falling into those bias traps.

How do you get moral values from science?

We can quantify the affects of our actions and dispel superstition that drives people to believe things that may harm others. We can debunk claims that influence people in negative ways.

Last century was the worst in the history of mankind. Let us see how we will act in this one.

Human history if full of atrocities, but the last century is also the one in which we made the most progress.

 

[trophy33]

Would you support a movement to legalize slavery?

I do not support any movements. I am politically inactive.

Human history if full of atrocities, but the last century is also the one in which we made the most progress.

Yeah, we made the most progress in how to kill tens of millions of people in just few years. On the other hand, we got youtube and facebook and new genders.

We people are so great.

 

[awitch]

I do not support any movements. I am politically inactive.

So if there was a credible push to legalize the ownership of other human beings, you'd just shrug and go about your day?

Yeah, we made the most progress in how to kill tens of millions of people in just few years. On the other hand, we got youtube and facebook and new genders.

I see nothing wrong with gender identities.
There are species of birds like the white-throated sparrow that effectively have four genders.

We people are so great.

In my opinion, we could improve a lot faster if we didn't hold onto ancient superstitions.

 

[trophy33]

So if there was a credible push to legalize the ownership of other human beings, you'd just shrug and go about your day?

I am starting to be bored by these questions. Again and again and again - I have no moral problem with slavery, if its not forced or cruel. I cannot be more clear. I think many slaves were better than people in jails, working all day, in gangs, on drugs etc. I will not answer any more questions about it, it has no end.

I see nothing wrong with gender identities.
There are species of birds like the white-throated sparrow that effectively have four genders.

But humans have two. Some animals are canibals, eat their own young ones or bite off the head of their sexual partners after sex. That does not mean its moral for us. And btw, some of them have slaves.

In my opinion, we could improve a lot faster if we didn't hold onto ancient superstitions.

Thats what Stalin and communists were saying.

 

[awitch]

I am starting to be bored by these questions. Again and again and again - I have no moral problem with slavery, if its not forced or cruel. I cannot be more clear. I think many slaves were better than people in jails, working all day, in gangs, on drugs etc. I will not answer any more questions about it, it has no end.

Very well, you've sufficiently satisfied my curiosity. Thank you for your time.

Some animals are canibals, eat their own young ones or bite off the head of their sexual partners after sex. That does not mean its moral for us.

No one is arguing that it is.

Thats what Stalin and communists were saying.

You seem to be implying that anyone who thinks superstition is an obstacle to progress must be a communist. We've seen Communism in action and we know it's not a sustainable form of government. See how that works?

 

[Zoness]

I am starting to be bored by these questions. Again and again and again - I have no moral problem with slavery, if its not forced or cruel. I cannot be more clear. I think many slaves were better than people in jails, working all day, in gangs, on drugs etc. I will not answer any more questions about it, it has no end.

Well, at least you own your pro-slavery position which I have to say is refreshingly honest.

Thats what Stalin and communists were saying.

Luckily as it stands from historical experience, we've found that radically reforming society along an arbitrary idea of industralization resulted in much more human suffering than it alleviated. As a result the world slowly but surely (and through force) rejected this system. Now again we're seeing that the status quo still causes a tremendous amount of pain and suffering but around the world, people are interested in solving these problems.

I think the assessment of "ancient superstitions holding back progress" is not that far off of the mark. When you're raised in a religious worldview that doesn't value life (because of an afterlife) and doesn't value progress in the natural world to make lives easier, you probably are at best disinterested in progress and maybe even actively fighting it. Political value judgements aside, religious people especially of the big monotheistic faiths tend to not care so much about these especially if they have a particularly apocalyptic worldview.

 

[trophy33]

Well, at least you own your pro-slavery position which I have to say is refreshingly honest.

We are living in a dictature of tolerance. Who does not agree with todays ideas of good and wrong, is afraid to speak honestly. People are afraid to express freely their opinions about religions, about history, about society, about races, about nations, about the role of women... fear everywhere. You can be even jailed in the UK if you say you do not agree with homosexuality or with other similar wrong thing pushed forward by loud activists. This century will not be a good one, I guess.

 

[trophy33]

You seem to be implying that anyone who thinks superstition is an obstacle to progress must be a communist. We've seen Communism in action and we know it's not a sustainable form of government. See how that works?

Just implying that who thinks that Judeo-Christian morals and teachings that are here for 2000 years are an "obstacle to progress" are repeating communists. They invented this view. And they barely last 50 years, killed 60 millions of people, many of their own citizens they jailed and beaten and then dissolved from inside and fell.
Christian or post-Christian countries are the ones that developed the most and now, when leaving their Christian views, they began to be divided, weak, despotic, punishing the ones who think or say they do not agree with the current propaganda and having problems in their society.

If we are talking about superstition generally, without a connection to a specific religion, then I agree. Superstitions like that homosexuality is normal, that sexualization of children and teenagers through media and culture is normal, that its ok to leave our spouse just because we found somebody better, that fullfilling our feelings is what should drive us, that to buy many things is a sign of progress... yes, I agree that many superstitions are keeping this society back and destroying it.

 

[awitch]

Just implying that who thinks that Judeo-Christian morals and teachings that are here for 2000 years are an "obstacle to progress" are repeating communists. They invented this view. And they barely last 50 years, killed 60 millions of people, many of their own citizens they jailed and beaten and then dissolved from inside and fell.
Christian or post-Christian countries are the ones that developed the most and now, when leaving their Christian views, they began to be divided, weak, despotic, punishing the ones who think or say they do not agree with the current propaganda and having problems in their society.

If we are talking about superstition generally, without a connection to a specific religion, then I agree. Superstitions like that homosexuality is normal, that sexualization of children and teenagers through media and culture is normal, that its ok to leave our spouse just because we found somebody better, that fullfilling our feelings is what should drive us, that to buy many things is a sign of progress... yes, I agree that many superstitions are keeping this society back and destroying it.

Well I see you've done a fantastic job wildly misrepresenting non-Christians and the LGBTQ community. I can see you either haven't read or had no comprehension of my last few posts, so I'll leave you to enjoy your bubble.

 

[trophy33]

Well I see you've done a fantastic job wildly misrepresenting non-Christians and the LGBTQ community. I can see you either haven't read or had no comprehension of my last few posts, so I'll leave you to enjoy your bubble.

I do not care about LGBTQ community, its a group of ill people who think they should find happines in their illness and force the majority to accept their illness as a normal healthy alternative.

LGBTQ is a superstition group that is holding our civilization back, as you formulated the phrase before.

 

[awitch]

I do not care about LGBTQ community, its a group of ill people who think they should find happines in their illness and force the majority to accept their illness as a normal healthy alternative.

LGBTQ is a superstition group that is holding our civilization back, as you formulated the phrase before.

Owning slaves is cool but being LBGTQ is destroying civilization, huh?
You can keep your religion. Keep it far away from me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This thread got really weird.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zoness]

Owning slaves is cool but being LBGTQ is destroying civilization, huh?
You can keep your religion. Keep it far away from me.

And yet I'm the one who got moderated for blasphemy lmao.

This thread got really weird.

-CryptoLutheran

To be honest I don't know why I even visit this forum anymore, reflex maybe? Plus I like a couple of y'all.

 

[Zoness]

We are living in a dictature of tolerance. Who does not agree with todays ideas of good and wrong, is afraid to speak honestly. People are afraid to express freely their opinions about religions, about history, about society, about races, about nations, about the role of women... fear everywhere. You can be even jailed in the UK if you say you do not agree with homosexuality or with other similar wrong thing pushed forward by loud activists. This century will not be a good one, I guess.

Tolerance is so spooky! The fact that you're mad that you can't openly denigrate women, people of other races and LGBT people says a lot about the religion you represent. Like that's the hill you're going to die on? Really?

To be clear, you can denigrate them. You can even do it on CF, but what you're hoping is....people will be nice to you for bigotry. You want to have crappy opinions and be appreciated for them. Well that, my friend, isn't so likely. To which I say, boo hoo.