The Loaded Question (Philippians 2:13)

[-57]

Do you think Demas, (2 Tim 4:10), Hymenaeus and Alexander, (1 Tim 1:20), or Phygellus, Hermogenes, and the rest of Asia, (2 Tim 1:15) were still "saved" after leaving the church?
I don't.

God's love is still available for them, but the next move is their's. And if they don't repent of their wickedness they will not be found in Father's hand.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

 

[bcbsr]

...apart from which works...? What works is paul referring to ?

Works of observance of the law.

As iv expressed already... Noah believed Gods gracious warning and gracious unearned offer of salvation and his gracious instructions on how to avail himself of that gracious offer...
So he proved he believed all that and went and built the ark...
Works much?... They surmise about 100 or so years of labouring .
Works of law... Zero. His works were not to make salvation available.his works were to avail himself of the salvation already made available.
Thus his action of obedient Faith caused him to benefit from Gods gracious provision to save.
Just as paul writes... For by grace,(God's gracious provision of salvation) are you aaved... THROUGH faith ( the obedient action we take in order to benefit from his gracious provision)

Are you saying that to be saved a person must do works of faith? Are you saying that a person doesn't have to love his neighbor as himself or obey (Lev 19:18) any of the other moral laws of Moses in order to be saved?

 

[bcbsr]

Where does the Bible say that justified means to be forgiven of sin? A given meaning will lead one to a particular view of the gospel. Starting with an assumed meaning is a sure way to chaos.

Rom 4:5-8 the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

 

[Grip Docility]

The finished work of Christ on the cross is never questioned.
I question the notion that we are sinlessly perfect. If you are not making that claim, then there is no issue between us.

Dude! How in the Sheol did you get that idea, from me?!?!?!?!?!?!?

You keep throwing poles at me.

North (Sinless)

South (Glory’s in sin)

I’m a Saved sinner till death.
I’m only saved by Jesus.
My being a saint has to do with HIS flesh, before the Father, like Jacob dresses as Esau, before his father to receive the birthright.

I’m the terminally Godless.
He’s the good Physician.

We await death to receive our inheritance.

The Maggot destined bodies (our Works) produce Skubala.

It is He alone that saves us by His Meritless Favor.

The Lord God, Jesus Christ isn't an Aspirin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ didn't die so we could sin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ didn't die so we could fail at Love.

The Lord God, Jesus Christ IS our Savior.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ DID die, because WE sin.
The Lord God, Jesus Christ DID die, to demonstrate what TRUE LOVE is.

I am not Jesus Christ.
I am not without sin.
I cannot Love as He Loves.

We, the Body of Christ are not to complicate the Gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
We, the Body of Christ are frail, weak and Dependent on Him.
We, the Body of Christ merely RESPOND to the Love He has FREELY GIVEN. (1 John 2:2)

The Gospel is the ointment of HIS LOVE to Godless, Reprobate, US.
The Gospel is HIM dying for us while we were yet sinners.
The Gospel is HIS Unconditional Love.

The Demons Know HE exists and TREMBLE.
The Demons DO not BELIEVE HE is sufficient to Save.
The Demons HATE HIS meritless favor and unconditional LOVE.

Belief of salvational type is the assurance of HIS ABILITY to Save us, totally.
Belief is not the washing of our filthy flesh, but a clear conscience of honesty before HIM.
Belief in Him, through acceptance of the Gospel (Good News) is our only offering.

 

[TheSeabass]

OSAS dude.


The crowns are crowns. Something to place on your heads if you desire.

Then what verse says the unfaithful, unbelieving, sinful will be saved?

 

[Alithis]

Are you saying that to be saved a person must do works of faith? Are you saying that a person doesn't have to love his neighbor as himself or obey (Lev 19:18) any of the other moral laws of Moses in order to be saved?

Try and get saved without faith
Try and have Faith without
action ... Can't.
For by grace are you saved through faith

Its grace AND the obedience of faith.
The action ...?
Repent
The action?
Be baptised for the remission if sin
The action?
Recieve the PROMISED Holy spirit
The action ?
Learn to walk in this New life in Christ obeying him .
The action?
Get to know his voice and follow him ..
The action..put off the old man and out on Christ
.it goes on and on in obedience untill you reciece tge final outcone of your obrdient action ..of your faith..
The salvation of your souls

Which Peters says we get.. WHEN HE RETURNS....
In the mean time we live in the promise of it.
But then we will recieve it...

Salvation is a journying process..
A straight and narrow road to be travelled and endured to its end.
The oppisite of instant gratification the flesh desires.

I Do desire that more people would spend more time obeying Jesus and Go out to work in the harvest to get people on the road of salvation and less time debating theory while sitting disobediently

 

[TheSeabass]

I think that's more about "sanctification" not really "salvation" (He saved us through His work on the cross - but we join with Him in our sanctification). I absolutely agree that our cooperation is necessary for the "completed work", though.

bsbsr said what I mean more articulately here:

Acts of the Apostles 2:40 save yourselves
1 Tim 4:16 save thyself
2 Corinthians 7:1 cleanse ourselves

Man does have a role in in his own salvation. Christ dying on the cross provided a path to salvation for man, it is up to man to take that path by obeying Christ, Hebrews 5:9 and those that obey Christ's words are in that sense 'saving themselves'.

Faith onlyist refuse to see that free gifts can be conditional and meeting the condition does not earn the gift.

 

[Grip Docility]

Then what verse says the unfaithful, unbelieving, sinful will be saved?

Universalism isn’t (Eternal security)

People reject God in their hearts to their own condemnation.

No response to the (heard) One True Gospel is a response.

 

[Grip Docility]

Acts of the Apostles 2:40 save yourselves
1 Tim 4:16 save thyself
2 Corinthians 7:1 cleanse ourselves

Man does have a role in in his own salvation. Christ dying on the cross provided a path to salvation for man, it is up to man to take that path by obeying Christ, Hebrews 5:9 and those that obey Christ's words are in that sense 'saving themselves'.

Faith onlyist refuse to see that free gifts can be conditional and meeting the condition does not earn the gift.

One Hears the Gospel and responds to the Gospel by “Belief” or “Unbelief”.

One either knows they’re damned, confesses He is Lord, And Believes unto their heart, that He is the resurrection... or they don’t.

Our response is our part. (1 John 2:2)

The offer has been made. It’s up to us to acknowledge our need for it.

Once responded to with Repentance and admission of Need for Him... (Exodus 14:14)

 

[Grip Docility]

Try and get saved without faith
Try and have Faith without
action ... Can't.
For by grace are you saved through faith

Its grace AND the obedience of faith.
The action ...?
Repent
The action?
Be baptised for the remission if sin
The action?
Recieve the PROMISED Holy spirit
The action ?
Learn to walk in this New life in Christ obeying him .
The action?
Get to know his voice and follow him ..
The action..put off the old man and out on Christ
.it goes on and on in obedience untill you reciece tge final outcone of your obrdient action ..of your faith..
The salvation of your souls

Which Peters says we get.. WHEN HE RETURNS....
In the mean time we live in the promise of it.
But then we will recieve it...

Salvation is a journying process..
A straight and narrow road to be travelled and endured to its end.
The oppisite of instant gratification the flesh desires.

I Do desire that more people would spend more time obeying Jesus and Go out to work in the harvest to get people on the road of salvation and less time debating theory while sitting disobediently

Then what am I doing here? I am being led by Him to be in the field.

Perhaps this should be my last post, perhaps not.

But, how can theory be discussed as bad to discuss by one that discusses theory?

 

[-57]

Then what verse says the unfaithful, unbelieving, sinful will be saved?

Why would a true believer..saved by the blood of Christ..become unbelieving?

 

[Concord1968]

Why would a true believer..saved by the blood of Christ..become unbelieving?

Martin Luther believed it possible. In fact, that was pretty much the only way Luther believed a Christian could lose his salvation.

 

[-57]

Martin Luther believed it possible. In fact, that was pretty much the only way Luther believed a Christian could lose his salvation.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Then what am I doing here? I am being led by Him to be in the field.

Perhaps this should be my last post, perhaps not.

But, how can theory be discussed as bad to discuss by one that discusses theory?

Belief grows as a result of studying the scriptures. Faith grows by applying that belief in the field as you say.

 

[childeye 2]

It is the manifestation of the grace of God on earth now.

So much of this is lost in semantics. For Jesus said to be perfect as your Father is perfect, and God said to Paul, my grace is sufficient for you for my strength is made perfect in your weakness.

 

[bcbsr]

Salvation is a journying process..
A straight and narrow road to be travelled and endured to its end.
The oppisite of instant gratification the flesh desires.

So what you're saying is that you view yourself as on the path to salvation but that you haven't arrived yet. I agree you have a ways to go in your thinking, and you haven't got there yet.

I on the other hand have already arrived. I have been saved. I have eternal life, like Jesus said, "He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24 Apparently you haven't really heard Him yet on the matter.

But I wish you well on your journey to be saved, while I can experienced joy and peace of having been saved.

 

[Grip Docility]

So what you're saying is that you view yourself as on the path to salvation but that you haven't arrived yet. I agree you have a ways to go in your thinking, and you haven't got there yet.

I on the other hand have already arrived. I have been saved. I have eternal life, like Jesus said, "He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24 Apparently you haven't really heard Him yet on the matter.

But I wish you well on your journey to be saved, while I can experienced joy and peace of having been saved.

When the Almighty makes promises... He never breaks them! For, He is not as a man that breaks their promises.

 

[TheSeabass]

Universalism isn’t (Eternal security)

People reject God in their hearts to their own condemnation.

No response to the (heard) One True Gospel is a response.

I reference Revelation 2:10 ".... be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

I asked poster "-57" if a Christian becomes unfaithful and dies unfaithful, will he be saved anyway?

"-57" responded with "OSAS dude"

So now proponents of OSAS are saying the unfaithful, unbelieving will be saved.

(See posts #100 and #128)

 

[Grip Docility]

I reference Revelations 2:10 ".... be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

I asked poster "-57" if a Christian becomes unfaithful and dies unfaithful, will he be saved anyway?

"-57" responded with "OSAS dude"

So now proponents of OSAS are saying the unfaith, unbelieving will be saved.

That's not what they mean. They mean that once the Father Draws a person that has responded into TRUE BELIEF... they may slip up and get mad at God, succumb to doubt from time to time, or fail at whatever point that is a human frailty... but God will look to their heart and see why their flesh is failing, lift them up and guide them.

Basically... this...

Footprints in the Sand
Footprints in the Sand, a beautiful poem!

One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.

After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.

This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."

He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."

 

[TheSeabass]

One Hears the Gospel and responds to the Gospel by “Belief” or “Unbelief”.

One either knows they’re damned, confesses He is Lord, And Believes unto their heart, that He is the resurrection... or they don’t.

Our response is our part. (1 John 2:2)

The offer has been made. It’s up to us to acknowledge our need for it.

Once responded to with Repentance and admission of Need for Him... (Exodus 14:14)

If one responds by believing, then that believe causes one to realize he is lost in his sins therefore his belief will lead him to repent of his sins (Luke 13:3) make the great confession of faith (Matthew 10:32-33) and be baptized for remission of his sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38).

Therefore belief, repentance, confession and baptism is man's role in his own salvation.

Christ Himself has told men to believe (John 8:24) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Matthew 10:32-33) and be baptized (Mark 16:16)...….."And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46. Jesus is Lord of those who DO the things He says. So those who do the things the Lord says are in that sense 'saving themselves'.