Is Trumps USA successful internationally?

Is Trumps USA an international success?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • No

    Votes: 22 81.5%
  • Good and Bad

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • Total voters
    27

mindlight

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Under Trump is America a better Christian moral example, richer, stronger and more influential or less so?

Some things Trump has done:
1) Appointment of conservative Supreme justices (possibility of rolling back Roe v Wade)
2) challenging of the LGBT agenda e.g. in military, ending of politically correct marginalisation of Christians that was occurring under Obama
3) Economy has grown
4) Rate of debt increase has declined from the days of Obama but debt is still rising and is dangerously high and the USA has a lot of external debt.
5) Militarily America remains dominant, its allies are spending more on defence and it has so far avoided military entanglement, but relations with many allies are strained. The North Korea situation is unchanged despite the various summits and North Korea still has nukes. Daesh is broken. Tensions are rising with Iran.
6) Social mobility remains poor, the rich die rich and the poor die poor
7) Trade Deficit has grown
8) Health care issue has not been resolved , affordable health care for all is not yet achieved
9) He has not spent any more on Space but he has reallocated resources back into manned space flight.
10) Trump is at odds with the international consensus on climate change
11) Anti Americanism has increased under Trump and there has been a focus in many cultures on Trump mockery.
12) American restrictions on immigration have been enforced
 
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section9+1

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Why is a secular country with secularly elected leaders that insists on separation of church and state obligated to be a better Christian moral example? Why must it keep the church at a safe distance from its policies and yet be expected to demonstrate all the church's teachings that it's supposed to be avoiding?
 
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Why is a secular country with secularly elected leaders that insists on separation of church and state obligated to be a better Christian moral example? Why must it keep the church at a safe distance from its policies and yet be expected to demonstrate all the church's teachings that it's supposed to be avoiding?

In the case of abortion or euthanasia it concerns the individual inviolability of people and specifically their right to live. In the case of "equality" motivated legislation e.g. gay marriage it is about the enshrinement of lies in law undermining the rule of law.

But what is your assessment of Trump on his impact on the power , wealth and influence of the USA?
 
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Occams Barber

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Under Trump is America a better Christian moral example, richer, stronger and more influential or less so?

Some things Trump has done:
1) Appointment of conservative Supreme justices (possibility of rolling back Roe v Wade)
2) challenging of the LGBT agenda e.g. in military, ending of politically correct marginalisation of Christians that was occurring under Obama
3) Economy has grown
4) Rate of debt increase has declined from the days of Obama but debt is still rising and is dangerously high and the USA has a lot of external debt.
5) Militarily America remains dominant, its allies are spending more on defence and it has so far avoided military entanglement, but relations with many allies are strained. The North Korea situation is unchanged despite the various summits and North Korea still has nukes. Daesh is broken. Tensions are rising with Iran.
6) Social mobility remains poor, the rich die rich and the poor die poor
7) Trade Deficit has grown
8) Health care issue has not been resolved , affordable health care for all is not yet achieved
9) He has not spent any more on Space but he has reallocated resources back into manned space flight.
10) Trump is at odds with the international consensus on climate change
11) Anti Americanism has increased under Trump and there has been a focus in many cultures on Trump mockery.
12) American restrictions on immigration have been enforced


PEW Research has looked at how the US is viewed internationally since Trump came on the scene. The overall result is not good. This quote is from the PEW report done in October 2018:

A year after global opinion of the United States dropped precipitously, favorable views of the U.S. remain at historic lows in many countries polled. In addition, more say bilateral relations with the U.S. have worsened, rather than improved, over the past year. Among possible sources of resentment is the widespread perception that the U.S. does not consider the interests of other countries when making foreign policy decisions. More generally, relatively few see the U.S. stepping up more to solve international problems.
When you consider that Trump's main forays into international relations have involved insulting allies and starting trade wars, this drop in popularity is hardly surprising.
OB
 
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section9+1

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In the case of abortion or euthanasia it concerns the individual inviolability of people and specifically their right to live. In the case of "equality" motivated legislation e.g. gay marriage it is about the enshrinement of lies in law undermining the rule of law.

But what is your assessment of Trump on his impact on the power , wealth and influence of the USA?
I am certainly pro life and pro biblical morality on a personal level. As far as Trump, I think he's kind of a jerk but I also think he is trying to do what is best for America. I think it is good to get along with other countries, but I have no problem at all with America first. All countries should seek their own advantage and I'd be surprised if one didn't. If other countries don't like it, they don't need to. I have voted democrat in most elections and I still would if they had anybody running. Looks like Trump for me.
 
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PEW Research has looked at how the US is viewed internationally since Trump came on the scene. The overall result is not good. This quote is from the PEW report done in October 2018:

A year after global opinion of the United States dropped precipitously, favorable views of the U.S. remain at historic lows in many countries polled. In addition, more say bilateral relations with the U.S. have worsened, rather than improved, over the past year. Among possible sources of resentment is the widespread perception that the U.S. does not consider the interests of other countries when making foreign policy decisions. More generally, relatively few see the U.S. stepping up more to solve international problems.
When you consider that Trump's main forays into international relations have involved insulting allies and starting trade wars, this drop in popularity is hardly surprising.
OB

To some extent Many of America's allies were taking America for granted failing to contribute soldiers or treasure to various wars for freedom. Britain being a notable exception of course.

Also there are major structural issues generated by outsourcing to third world countries and relative pricing of building in the USA or abroad which mean you have a massive trade deficit which the business community was helping to drive.

Trump as a politician and deal maker rather than diplomat has addressed these issues in
An aggressive and confrontational manner.

The shock to the international community and challenge to America's business elite of the America First policy is partly due to their expectations about a free ride and endless profits at America's expense

Maybe he could have handled the diplomacy better and his approach has not worked with the people in Germany who do not have realistic understandings of the role of the military. But the issues he has raised did need addressing and Obama had failed to do that.
 
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I am certainly pro life and pro biblical morality on a personal level. As far as Trump, I think he's kind of a jerk but I also think he is trying to do what is best for America. I think it is good to get along with other countries, but I have no problem at all with America first. All countries should seek their own advantage and I'd be surprised if one didn't. If other countries don't like it, they don't need to. I have voted democrat in most elections and I still would if they had anybody running. Looks like Trump for me.

You cannot be apolitical on the pro-life question. Someone else is killing someone else so that you would never do it personally is irrelevant. You need law and the state to stop murder. The idea That Christianity stops at the front door is not at all biblical.
 
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section9+1

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I didn't say I was apolitical. If the abortion issue comes up on the ballot I will vote for life and I prefer legislators and judges that are pro life. However, I have lived with Roe vs Wade for a long time and will continue to do so if I have to. Individuals can improve, but the world never will. Christianity is little more than a voice crying in the wilderness and everything goes according to plan.
 
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I didn't say I was apolitical. If the abortion issue comes up on the ballot I will vote for life and I prefer legislators and judges that are pro life. However, I have lived with Roe vs Wade for a long time and will continue to do so if I have to. Individuals can improve, but the world never will. Christianity is little more than a voice crying in the wilderness and everything goes according to plan.

Individuals must make sacrifices for what they believe. But also I believe well led nations can give us glimpses of the glory to come. There are countries that provide solid Christian governance and on the whole these are also richer, stronger and more culturally significant. There are a significant number of historical examples. But they usually end up breaking and falling when their people start taking God for granted.
 
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section9+1

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I think a preponderance of Christians in a country can hold back God's judgement on a country. I think Christianity in a country really is salt. But this world is a doomed place ultimately. I am not interested in hurrying it along, but it has already been determined that all nations will fail.
 
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I think a preponderance of Christians in a country can hold back God's judgement on a country. I think Christianity in a country really is salt. But this world is a doomed place ultimately. I am not interested in hurrying it along, but it has already been determined that all nations will fail.

I remember meeting smartly dressed red Chinese in London on Trafalgar Square on New year's Eve towards the end of the last century. At the time I was talking to some Americans. I forget what led to it but remember saying, "Last century we ruled the world," and I looked up at Admiral Nelson on his column, then " this century they rule the world ," I nodded at the Americans, then looking at the Chinese, " maybe next century you will rule the world."

An American lady then proclaimed, " Hey we are not giving it up that easily."

It is choice to hold on to the conditions that established the success of America, that it is a City on a hill where Christians can do exceptional things. Real Politik by itself cannot preserve the powers, riches and freedoms of a nation that has allowed its soul to rot.

The question is whether Trump is a purifying force or an agent of that rot.
 
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section9+1

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Regarding Trump only history can answer that. It will take time to sort it out. Today we can only play the cards we have been dealt. As Christians we are very much like the world except for one thing. We have hope. The world has none. We cannot change the course of history, but we can still be salt.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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We Americans got tired of a government that was determined with pleasing everybody but us. So we elected Trump. America is not the leader of the "free world" or the "international democratic order". America is just America now.
 
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But what is your assessment of Trump on his impact on the power , wealth and influence of the USA?

I think you misunderstand the motivations of the majority of us who elected President Trump. We're less interested in maintaining the power and influence of the United States on the world stage than we are in minding our own business and being the nation we were founded to be. I think you can see this displayed in the disapproval of the majority of Trump voters when certain elements within our government were agitating for us to attack iran.

From George Washington's farewell address:

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.

Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics or the ordinary combination and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world..."
 
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I think you misunderstand the motivations of the majority of us who elected President Trump. We're less interested in maintaining the power and influence of the United States on the world stage than we are in minding our own business and being the nation we were founded to be. I think you can see this displayed in the disapproval of the majority of Trump voters when certain elements within our government were agitating for us to attack iran.

From George Washington's farewell address:

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.

Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics or the ordinary combination and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world..."

The world was a much bigger place in George's time. He didn't have to contend with ICBMs or satellites or interlocking trade and financial linkages. China was a backwater and Russia was a monarchy presiding over a population of peasant slaves.

The world has changed and only the least significant countries can afford to ignore the need to develop a productive relationship with the rest of the world.

Shutting the gate and closing the door is no longer an option.
OB
 
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He didn't have to contend with ICBMs or satellites or interlocking trade and financial linkages. China was a backwater and Russia was a monarchy presiding over a population of peasant slaves.

The world has changed and only the least significant countries can afford to ignore the need to develop a productive relationship with the rest of the world.

Shutting the gate and closing the door is no longer an option.
OB

That may be your opinion as an Australian atheist, but frankly your opinion of what the United States should be holds zero weight when compared to that of George Washington. Zero. You all can make nice with China or let the entire population of Indonesia emigrate if you want. Not our issue.
 
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Newtheran

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An American lady then proclaimed, " Hey we are not giving it up that easily."

And yet, after 40 years of free trade and humanism we have come within a hair's breadth of giving it up just that easily.

It is choice to hold on to the conditions that established the success of America, that it is a City on a hill where Christians can do exceptional things. Real Politik by itself cannot preserve the powers, riches and freedoms of a nation that has allowed its soul to rot.

Yes...and not just its soul, it's churches. Look at some of the nonsense that is spouted under the title of "christian" here from time to time.

The question is whether Trump is a purifying force or an agent of that rot.

He is neither. His political opponents have clearly identified them as agents of rot while purification can only be had through revival. He positioned himself as a Sampson while the rest of the Republican primary field was discussing to what degree Israel should mimic the people of Goliath. That's why he won. The degree to which he will be successful will be measured by the degree to which he pushes over the pillars of the Philistine temple. I don't think anyone has any illusions whatsoever about the man or his character flaws.
 
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The world was a much bigger place in George's time. He didn't have to contend with ICBMs or satellites or interlocking trade and financial linkages. China was a backwater and Russia was a monarchy presiding over a population of peasant slaves.

That policy served us quite well until 1917. It was abandoned largely due to political machinations and manipulation of public opinion by special interests on both sides of the pond.

The world has changed and only the least significant countries can afford to ignore the need to develop a productive relationship with the rest of the world.

A productive relationship needn't require a military alliance...
 
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Ophiolite

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We Americans got tired of a government that was determined with pleasing everybody but us.
Unfortunately it often failed to do that especially well either.

That may be your opinion as an Australian atheist, but frankly your opinion of what the United States should be holds zero weight when compared to that of George Washington. Zero. You all can make nice with China or let the entire population of Indonesia emigrate if you want. Not our issue.
If George Washington were alive today that attitude would have him turning in his grave. :)
 
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That may be your opinion as an Australian atheist, but frankly your opinion of what the United States should be holds zero weight when compared to that of George Washington. Zero. You all can make nice with China or let the entire population of Indonesia emigrate if you want. Not our issue.
What does his being an atheist have to do with dismissing his opinion? The US is not a Christian country and many of your own fellow Americans are atheists.
 
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