The Loaded Question (Philippians 2:13)

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Say what!?! Are you serious!! Lol

1 John 1:8

Sinless? I’m with Hitler!

This is my OP! My works are Skubala!

It is by Him, Alone!

That's good to know. Perhaps I was misled when you said that you had no regrets over sin. That's strange, because any sin dishonours Christ and takes something away from His glory. Anyone who loves Christ and has a great desire for the glory of Christ would regret any sin that they commit. But if a person can sin and not have regrets and mourning, they may not be loving Christ as they should.

 

[Grip Docility]

Again truncating the essential, the whole concept is in John 11:25-26.

Amen! I believe! Sola Fida

 

[Phil W]

If a person says that they are totally without sin, and therefore totally obedient to every command of Christ, then I can say to that person "God declares to you that you are deceived and the truth is not in you". This is quite serious because brings up the question as to whether such a person is truly saved, because if the truth not in them, then it may mean that they don't have the Holy Spirit which resides only in a genuinely saved believer.

And if the person actually teaches full obedience to others, he is teaching deception to them, and Jesus said that if anyone offends a fellow believer and leads them astray, it would be better if they had a rock around their neck and drowned in the sea, and so it would be better if they had never been born!

I am not saying these things, but just passing on what God's Word says.
So, these are pretty serious issues here.

This is probably the reason the moderators don't want it discussed here.
PM me if you want the answer to your post.

But I gotta ask...are we not to love God above all else and our neighbor as ourself?
Would the Lord require the impossible from us?
I know He wouldn't.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Good question...
John is writing to a church, about two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.

You are misquoting the Scripture; Here it is in context:
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

John is not talking about unregenerate people in the church. He is talking about "we" and "us". This means that he is talking about the believers in the church and including himself with them.

Deceived people quote Scripture out of context and twist it to support their false view. True sanctification is progressive. Our obedience is not perfect, and as we walk in the Spirit, our obedience improves day by day, but we will never be entirely perfect until we are with the Lord in glory.

 

[def]

I have studied J Wesley at length, and even he doesn't really believe it.
But I do believe "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
That was a 'one-and-done' event, and it's gracious effects should be seen in all lovers of Christ.

Read the whole chapter.

Yes, it is a once off event, and that is the reason the author of Hebrews is warning:
" For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs unto me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10: 26-31).

 

[Grip Docility]

That's good to know. Perhaps I was misled when you said that you had no regrets over sin. That's strange, because any sin dishonours Christ and takes something away from His glory. Anyone who loves Christ and has a great desire for the glory of Christ would regret any sin that they commit. But if a person can sin and not have regrets and mourning, they may not be loving Christ as they should.

Look at my Sola Fide thread. This is insane!

I tried to make peace by explaining Belief is obeying the Gospel!

This is so impersonal and so far removed from anything I’ve written.

Faith Alone is not the denial that "Initial Belief" (In Jesus, being God the Son Who Died, was Buried and Rose on the Third Day)... is our WORK... because Jesus taught us it is John 6:28-29.

Faith Alone is not a secret teaching that suggests we should Increase our Sins because they're paid for like an indulgence.

Faith Alone is not a loop hole to sin without sorrow.

Faith Alone is not a way of denying that Christians are led by The HOLY SPIRIT of Christ to Bear The Galatians 5:22-23.

Faith Alone forever Confesses 1 John 1:8

Faith Alone does not, and never will suggest that Jesus cannot Overcome Horrible struggles with Sin, in our lives, for us.

Faith Alone does not deny that God works miracles.

Faith Alone is our part. (Romans 4:1-6)

Salvation and Sanctification is HIS PART.

All Glory Goes to Jesus!

Are we really, all out to hang one another?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oh for Pete’s sake! I’m saying our response to the Gospel in Yes or no is all we have! The rest is all His!

Try to be a peace maker and everyone gets all crazy!!!!

We are not crazy. We are just making sure that people abide by the truth in God's Word concerning the nature of our sanctification.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is probably the reason the moderators don't want it discussed here.
PM me if you want the answer to your post.

But I gotta ask...are we not to love God above all else and our neighbor as ourself?
Would the Lord require the impossible from us?
I know He wouldn't.

God's Word says that although we are justified by faith in Christ alone, we still have our flesh with us as a dead carcass which wars against our new heart and spirit. Progressive sanctification is a battle in which we have to keep our flesh under subjection every day. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. That is why we are provided with 1 John 1:9 to keep short accounts with God concerning our failures.

A person cannot say that he is justified and then everything is okay and that he does not have to fight the good fight in order to finish the race. We have to fight our own flesh, demons, false teachings, the world, unconverted people who try to drag us back into the world. It is a constant battle, but we have been supplied with the armour of God (Ephesians 6).

 

[def]

I think you mis-labeled your verse.?

Yes, thanks, corrected.

 

[def]

Oh for Pete’s sake! I’m saying our response to the Gospel in Yes or no is all we have! The rest is all His!

Try to be a peace maker and everyone gets all crazy!!!!

 

[Grip Docility]

God's Word says that although we are justified by faith in Christ alone, we still have our flesh with us as a dead carcass which wars against our new heart and spirit. Progressive sanctification is a battle in which we have to keep our flesh under subjection every day. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. That is why we are provided with 1 John 1:9 to keep short accounts with God concerning our failures.

A person cannot say that he is justified and then everything is okay and that he does not have to fight the good fight in order to finish the race. We have to fight our own flesh, demons, false teachings, the world, unconverted people who try to drag us back into the world. It is a constant battle, but we have been supplied with the armour of God (Ephesians 6).

Exodus 14:14!

He is sufficient! Our God is a warring God! I’m talking about everything from Armageddon to our Lives!

David had a sling and a rock, but THE ROCK was His Victory!

 

[Grip Docility]

We are not crazy. We are just making sure that people abide by the truth in God's Word concerning the nature of our sanctification.

I have done no thing but exalt Jesus. I have given all Glory to Jesus. I do not boast in flesh, Glory in Sin or bind up heavy burdens on the brethren’s backs.

Is Jesus sufficient to save?

It’s a binary question.

Is God the Holy Spirit capable of finishing God’s work?

Yes!

People either Believe Jesus Saves or they don’t.

People either believe He conquered sin and death on Calvery or He didn’t.

It goes like this....

Gospel... preached.... Gospel rejected or accepted....

True Faith is imparted or True Faith is Resisted.

Completed by God... Alone... in His time.

If there’s a “yeah, but”... It’s going to exalt the flesh.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have done no thing but exalt Jesus. I have given all Glory to Jesus. I do not boast in flesh, Glory in Sin or bind up heavy burdens on the brethren’s backs.

Is Jesus sufficient to save?

It’s a binary question.

Is God the Holy Spirit capable of finishing God’s work?

Yes!

People either Believe Jesus Saves or they don’t.

People either believe He conquered sin and death on Calvery or He didn’t.

It goes like this....

Gospel... preached.... Gospel rejected or accepted....

True Faith is imparted or True Faith is Resisted.

Completed by God... Alone... in His time.

If there’s a “yeah, but”... It’s going to exalt the flesh.

The finished work of Christ on the cross is never questioned.
I question the notion that we are sinlessly perfect. If you are not making that claim, then there is no issue between us.

 

[bcbsr]

And in this relationship, we can be justified by works, by the faith of Christ, and by the blood of Christ. Therefore, justification by faith IS NOT ALONE, but is accompanied by the three other justifications.

Don't understand what you mean by that. If a person is justified (forgiven of sin), then he is saved and will not be condemned. Are you saying that a person's final salvation is not contingent solely on faith in Christ, but rather upon works?

 

[bcbsr]

The works one is Not saved by... What are they?
Works of the Law...!
Did abraham.do any such works ?No!
Did he believe God? Yes
How do we know?
He acted in obedience.
No where does the scripture say stop disobeying and Do nothing.
Because doing nothing IS disobedient.
No where are we saved by works of the Law.
No where are we saved without obeying the Gospel.
Scripture warns those who " disobey " the gospel.
Obedience is the evidence of true believing and the action of faith is the evidence.

Do you think abraham took hus promised son issac up to a mountain to sacrifice him and raised the knife because he Didnt believe God?
No..he did it because he Did believe so he acted in faith that God would raise the boy again.
And his faith (obedient action... Zero works of law) was credited to him as righteousness.

So you're saying a person is saved by faith PLUS doing works of faith, namely obeying all the commands. Maybe you can specify which commands a person has to obey in order to be saved.

 

[Alithis]

Let's replace "sinless perfection" with "complete obedience to God".
Perhaps that will be more palatable for those monitoring the site.
I teach complete obedience to God.

Odd... So does the bible..how about that..

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Odd... So does the bible..how about that..

It is quite true that the Bible teaches that total obedience is the standard, but do you know anyone who has achieved it?

 

[Alithis]

Notice the text the Paul is focusing on and his point in Romans 4, namely justification by faith apart from works. Abraham's justification was based not upon what he had done up to that point, nor upon any work he did later on, but rather simply because he believed the promise of God.

So also for the Christian, "to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5 God made a promise, presented in different ways, like John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" Upon believing that promise a person is given eternal life and will not be condemned. It's a one time, one way door - as if he crossed over from death to life, which is to say such a person is eternally secure. To many Christians it's unbelievable and so in their unbelief they tinker with the gospel to make salvation contingent upon one's performance rather than upon one's faith in God's promise.

namely justification by faith apart from works.

...apart from which works...? What works is paul referring to ?

Works of observance of the law.

As iv expressed already... Noah believed Gods gracious warning and gracious unearned offer of salvation and his gracious instructions on how to avail himself of that gracious offer...
So he proved he believed all that and went and built the ark...
Works much?... They surmise about 100 or so years of labouring .
Works of law... Zero. His works were not to make salvation available.his works were to avail himself of the salvation already made available.
Thus his action of obedient Faith caused him to benefit from Gods gracious provision to save.
Just as paul writes... For by grace,(God's gracious provision of salvation) are you aaved... THROUGH faith ( the obedient action we take in order to benefit from his gracious provision)

 

[Alithis]

It is quite true that the Bible teaches that total obedience is the standard, but do you know anyone who has achieved it?

he that dwells within me and is greater then he that is in the world ?

 

[def]

Don't understand what you mean by that. If a person is justified (forgiven of sin), then he is saved and will not be condemned. Are you saying that a person's final salvation is not contingent solely on faith in Christ, but rather upon works?

Where does the Bible say that justified means to be forgiven of sin? A given meaning will lead one to a particular view of the gospel. Starting with an assumed meaning is a sure way to chaos.