Ken Ham v the Flat Earth

[A Realist]

Myself, I've had a hard drive crash a few weeks back and lost hundreds of informative FE links, including 3 or 4 of these.

 

[Hank77]

As a descendant of the Enlightenment, and as a former science teacher, I want to help people to eschew falsehood and attain knowledge.

How does destroying someone's view of the Bible and therefore their world view make them a better person, a better member of society?

 

[Ophiolite]

How does destroying someone's view of the Bible and therefore their world view make them a better person, a better member of society?

You are equating correction with destruction. You're not part of the US penal system are you?

 

[essentialsaltes]

How does destroying someone's view of the Bible and therefore their world view make them a better person, a better member of society?

I imagine that coming to a different view of the Bible is not likely to have a strong effect either way, to make them better or worse. Having a better grasp of reality, I'd like to think, would be more likely to make someone a better person than a worse one. If nothing else, when they make decisions or vote, their decisions will be based on reality, which should produce better outcomes. But as I said, most likely it would have little effect. But even if it has a negative effect...

As a child of the Enlightenment, I think it is better to accept an unpleasant truth than hang on to a comforting lie.

 

[Hank77]

I imagine that coming to a different view of the Bible is not likely to have a strong effect either way, to make them better or worse.

As an atheist you can't possibly imagine how it could effect a Christian who takes God's six days of creation literally. You have no way of imagining to put yourself in their shoes.

As a child of the Enlightenment, I think it is better to accept an unpleasant truth than hang on to a comforting lie.

Why would a Christian believe an atheist who says God's word is a lie?

If you truly wanted to help them to accept evolution or any part of it you would do things like post papers written by Christian scientists that believe in evolution or maybe books or videos by Christian scholars and scientists, I have actually done that.

 

[essentialsaltes]

As an atheist you can't possibly imagine how it could effect a Christian who takes God's six days of creation literally. You have no way of imagining to put yourself in their shoes.

I know it can be painful to come out of the rabbit hole. The book I mentioned tells some stories of people who gave up their conspiracy theories and were anxious about how to make amends with their estranged families and have to admit they believed in nonsense. But people get over it. I know there are many Christians here who accept evolution, and they don't seem to be noticeably worse people than the Christians who don't. The journey from fantasy to reality may be painful, but once they finally arrive in realityland, they should adjust.

Why would a Christian believe an atheist who says God's word is a lie?

I try to stick to the facts and evidence of the scientific question. But yes, it's hard sometimes, to get through to people who literally demonize you. That's why, in this thread, I'm (over-optimistically) excited about the possibility of biblical literalist round-earthers interacting with biblical literalist flat-earthers. When they see how nutty biblical literalism can get, they may, on rare occasions, have a self-reflective moment about their own nuttiness.

If you truly wanted to help them to accept evolution or any part of it you would do things like post papers written by Christian scientists that believe in evolution

What, something like this?

 

[Tanj]

1. I think I added some of that info in past FE threads.

I went back through your posting history and couldn't find anything. Please repost.

Meaning others will have to take responsibility for themselves.

What does that mean? We have to find the evidence because your hard drive crashed? That's not how this works.

However, it does give me a new response to my question.

3. The dog ate my homework.

 

[pitabread]

Watching YECs and Flat Earthers do battle is amazing to me.

It's like you have two people both arguing for the existence of the Easter Bunny. But then one of them also believes in the Tooth Fairy, but the other thinks that belief is nuts.

Meanwhile the rest of the world thinks they are both crazy.

 

[Ophiolite]

Watching YECs and Flat Earthers do battle is amazing to me.

It's like you have two people both arguing for the existence of the Easter Bunny. But then one of them also believes in the Tooth Fairy, but the other thinks that belief is nuts.

Meanwhile the rest of the world thinks they are both crazy.

Including the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

 

[Hank77]

What, something like this?

Yes, those types of things.

. I know there are many Christians here who accept evolution, and they don't seem to be noticeably worse people than the Christians who don't

It has nothing to do with believing in evolution or not, it's about people losing their faith in the word of God. I think you have made an assumption from something I said. I don't think they would be necessarily be worse people but they would certainly be less happy people if it caused them to distrust or reject other teachings in the Bible.

 

[Strathos]

1. I think I added some of that info in past FE threads. Myself, I've had a hard drive crash a few weeks back and lost hundreds of informative FE links, including 3 or 4 of these. Meaning others will have to take responsibility for themselves.

2. Don't you ever speak about me in that manner and expect anything substantive from me in return. I've provided massive amounts of info about FE since last fall on thee threads, only to run up against people like you who only want to whine and complain. In fact, I'm done with toxic people like you. Enjoy the 'ignore' status. You've earned it.

'I can explain how this stuff works on a flat earth'

'Explain it then (but I know you won't)'

'Well I can't right now, but how dare you imply that I won't! I'm going to put you on ignore so I never have to actually back up my claims to you!'

 

[essentialsaltes]

It has nothing to do with believing in evolution or not, it's about people losing their faith in the word of God.

With respect, maybe the problem isn't with me trying to educate by showing the evidence that underlies our scientific understanding of the natural world, but with religious leaders who have hammered home the point that there is only one valid way to understand the word of God, and if one jot or tittle of it is false, then it all falls apart like a house of cards.

they would certainly be less happy people if it caused them to distrust or reject other teachings in the Bible.

This is why I'm bringing up the many Christians who do believe in evolution. They don't hold to a YEC position, but I have no reason to believe they distrust or reject teachings of the Bible. Or are unhappy in any way.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I've spent a lot of effort over the last 6-9 months dealing with the stupid accusations from people like Strathos, seeking to appease them. It was a fruitless endeavor and I'm done with him and a few others. They aren't worth any more of my time, regardless of how much they may moan about it or make additional whinny claims about me. I gave them many hours of my time over numerous months. I'm done and I owe them nothing.

I'm going to call this a deliberately dishonest claim. Despite your repetition of this claim nobody is able to find the posts you say you have made. There are 2 options:

1. You haven't made those posts on this website
2. There's a conspiracy to hide a subset of your posts from anyone looking for them.

Although option 2 seems credible, I'm going to believe the less likely option 1.

 

[Brightmoon]

Meh, none of that matters.

I'll post for the 4th time what I always post to flat earthers.

In the northern hemisphere the stars appear to rotate anti-clockwise around a central point
In the southern hemisphere, the stars appear to rotate clockwise around a central point.

That cannot be explained by any flat earth model. In any flat earth model, regardless of where you are, all of the starts should seem to rotate in the same direction around the same central point. Only a sphere earth makes this simple observation work.

That's it. No fancy measurements, balloons, satellites, expensive equipment or rockets. Just a passport, airfare and a weeks holiday.

And the usual ending, same as the last 3 times I posted this. There's only 2 responses I have ever seen to this:
1) Ignore the post, pretend it never existed
2) Call everyone that lives in the southern hemisphere a liar.

Wonder which way you will go?

my personal favorite is that Polaris on on the horizon at the equator and unable to be seen at all in the Southern Hemisphere and that’s impossible on a flat earth

 

[Brightmoon]

Danny Faulkner done a pretty good job on discrediting Marshall Halls book ( the earth is not moving) But only in mathematical and scientific equations. But not with the factual historical information he provided. If you want to go with Albert Einstein equations who simply threw the eather out to make his law of relativity work. Thus proving that the earth is moving. Than I think I shall stick with the tried and tested geocentric view.

. On a geocentric earth Venus and mercury would have to be observed within a narrow angle of the sun. The problem is that on a geocentric system you’d never be able to see the phases of Venus that , in reality ,are actually easily observed .

As you can figure out in a geocentric system the only phases you’d see are crescent and new because of the fact that Venus is never observed far from the sun

 

[Brightmoon]

Sorry I can’t link. Ptolemy figured out how to account for the change in size but you can’t see all the phases

 

[AV1611VET]

As a descendant of the Enlightenment, and as a former science teacher, I want to help people to eschew falsehood and attain knowledge.

AAAAAH! The Enlightenment!

Covered by the church at Sardis.

Why didn't you say so in the first place?

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

See especially verses 2 and 3.

Too bad academia didn't pay attention back then.

Well for the record, I'll try not to defile my garments with the filth that came out of the Enlightenment either.

 

[Brightmoon]

The filth that came out of the enlightenment? Like your ability to vote? Oh I get it ! The removal of the stranglehold religion had on understanding natural phenomena and medical/surgical procedures . You don’t like that?

 

[Strathos]

That was a message to the church of Sardis, which had a reputation at the time for being all flash and no substance (not unlike many US megachurches today...). I don't see what that has to do with the enlightenment.

Then again, you do have a habit of quoting seemingly random scripture in response to others.

 

[AV1611VET]

That was a message to the church of Sardis, which had a reputation at the time for being all flash and no substance (not unlike many US megachurches today...). I don't see what that has to do with the enlightenment.

Then again, you do have a habit of quoting seemingly random scripture in response to others.

I take it you're not a fan of the idea that those seven churches can be representatives of seven periods of history?

Or is this the first time you've ever heard this?