Ken Ham v the Flat Earth

[essentialsaltes]

Young Earth creationist Ken Ham of AIG seems to be upset by the rising tide of Flat Earthism.

In the past, one question I rarely ever received was, “What about the flat earth?” But now I hear it all the time!
...
In fact, it used to kind of be an insult thrown at creationists, “You guys must also believe in a flat earth, right?” (Spoiler: we don’t.)

And that’s why I’m excited about a new documentary hosted by The Creation Guys and produced by Awesome Science Media [and featuring] AiG’s Dr. Danny Faulkner.

If you know someone in the flat earth movement, I encourage you to share this documentary with them. And if you’re part of it, I respectfully encourage you to humbly view this film and reconsider your position.

---

I recently read Escaping the Rabbit Hole, by Mick West
Subtitled: How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories Using Facts, Logic, and Respect

It's a good book. One of the points he brings up is that there is a 'scale' of conspiracy theories from mundane to extreme. It's not that some people aren't conspiracy theorists and some people are. It's more that we all draw the line at different places. On the less extreme side, many people probably believe that pharmaceutical companies 'conspire' to place profits ahead of human health to some extent. Few people believe 9-11 was an inside job, and very few believe the Earth is flat (and NASA and bajillions of other people have conspired to hide the truth).

One of the techniques West proposes is when trying to help a friend out of conspiracy thinking, to both take a look at something that's just too extreme for your friend. Look at the flaws and evidence in the theory. And possibly, your friend will be more amenable to applying some of these same tools when you turn your attention to the conspiracy theory that he or she does believe in.

So, without really knowing anything about the contents of this DVD, I'd like to hope that it is wildly successful. And the Young Earth Creationists who absorb it and use it to talk down their flat earth friends will find something in it that makes them also apply this mode of thinking to their own ideas about any supposed conspiracy of scientists to uphold evolution by hiding the truth. It may make life easier for those of us working hard to slide people one more step down the scale.

I know, I know. Shower me with Optimistic tags.

 

[Yttrium]

Old Earth Creationists:
Biologists and paleontologists are conspiring to make us believe that the theory of evolution is true.

Young Earth Creationists:
Plus, most scientists are conspiring to make us believe the Earth and universe are ancient.

Geocentrists:
Plus, Nasa and other agencies are conspiring to make us believe that Earth isn't the center of the universe, with everything revolving around it.

Flat Earthers:
Plus, most people on the planet are conspiring to make us believe that the Earth isn't flat.

Things get progressively more paranoid as you progress down the scale. I recently tried to count the Flat Earthers in the forums, and I came up with six who seemed serious and who had posted fairly recently. I've never encountered a Flat Earther in forums before I came here. I ran across a couple Geocentrists a while back at another site.

I like the idea of having them consider an even more extreme conspiracy theory, but some are so prone to conspiracy theories that they'll probably just add it to their list.

 

[Tanj]

One of the techniques West proposes is when trying to help a friend out of conspiracy thinking, to both take a look at something that's just too extreme for your friend. Look at the flaws and evidence in the theory. And possibly, your friend will be more amenable to applying some of these same tools when you turn your attention to the conspiracy theory that he or she does believe in.

Wont work. Watch the truly excellent flat earth documentary "Behind the Curve" on Netflix, especially the bit with the lady in the car explaining how a different group of flat earthers are all nutty conspiracy types.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Wont work.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Watch the truly excellent flat earth documentary "Behind the Curve" on Netflix, especially the bit with the lady in the car explaining how a different group of flat earthers are all nutty conspiracy types.

The flat earthers are pretty extreme, so I don't hold out much hope for them. But in the world of "biblical literalists", the flat earthers are similar to, but more extreme than, the YEC. So in the spirit of Mick West's book, I'm hoping (against hope) that the YEC [who are slightly less extreme] who try to use this video to combat the flat earthers (and fail!) will come to realize some of the similarities of the flat earthers' imperviousness to evidence to their own imperviousness to evidence of evolution.

 

[Tanj]

Wouldn't surprise me.



The flat earthers are pretty extreme, so I don't hold out much hope for them. But in the world of "biblical literalists", the flat earthers are similar to, but more extreme than, the YEC. So in the spirit of Mick West's book, I'm hoping (against hope) that the YEC [who are slightly less extreme] who try to use this video to combat the flat earthers (and fail!) will come to realize some of the similarities of the flat earthers' imperviousness to evidence to their own imperviousness to evidence of evolution.

Watch the doco.

 

[Hank77]

Wouldn't surprise me.



The flat earthers are pretty extreme, so I don't hold out much hope for them. But in the world of "biblical literalists", the flat earthers are similar to, but more extreme than, the YEC. So in the spirit of Mick West's book, I'm hoping (against hope) that the YEC [who are slightly less extreme] who try to use this video to combat the flat earthers (and fail!) will come to realize some of the similarities of the flat earthers' imperviousness to evidence to their own imperviousness to evidence of evolution.

Why do you care of YEC don't believe in evolution?

 

[Kate30]

Young Earth creationist Ken Ham of AIG seems to be upset by the rising tide of Flat Earthism.

In the past, one question I rarely ever received was, “What about the flat earth?” But now I hear it all the time!
...
In fact, it used to kind of be an insult thrown at creationists, “You guys must also believe in a flat earth, right?” (Spoiler: we don’t.)

And that’s why I’m excited about a new documentary hosted by The Creation Guys and produced by Awesome Science Media [and featuring] AiG’s Dr. Danny Faulkner.

If you know someone in the flat earth movement, I encourage you to share this documentary with them. And if you’re part of it, I respectfully encourage you to humbly view this film and reconsider your position.

---

I recently read Escaping the Rabbit Hole, by Mick West
Subtitled: How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories Using Facts, Logic, and Respect

It's a good book. One of the points he brings up is that there is a 'scale' of conspiracy theories from mundane to extreme. It's not that some people aren't conspiracy theorists and some people are. It's more that we all draw the line at different places. On the less extreme side, many people probably believe that pharmaceutical companies 'conspire' to place profits ahead of human health to some extent. Few people believe 9-11 was an inside job, and very few believe the Earth is flat (and NASA and bajillions of other people have conspired to hide the truth).

One of the techniques West proposes is when trying to help a friend out of conspiracy thinking, to both take a look at something that's just too extreme for your friend. Look at the flaws and evidence in the theory. And possibly, your friend will be more amenable to applying some of these same tools when you turn your attention to the conspiracy theory that he or she does believe in.

So, without really knowing anything about the contents of this DVD, I'd like to hope that it is wildly successful. And the Young Earth Creationists who absorb it and use it to talk down their flat earth friends will find something in it that makes them also apply this mode of thinking to their own ideas about any supposed conspiracy of scientists to uphold evolution by hiding the truth. It may make life easier for those of us working hard to slide people one more step down the scale.

I know, I know. Shower me with Optimistic tags.

Danny Faulkner done a pretty good job on discrediting Marshall Halls book ( the earth is not moving) But only in mathematical and scientific equations. But not with the factual historical information he provided. If you want to go with Albert Einstein equations who simply threw the eather out to make his law of relativity work. Thus proving that the earth is moving. Than I think I shall stick with the tried and tested geocentric view.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Why do you care of YEC don't believe in evolution?

As a descendant of the Enlightenment, and as a former science teacher, I want to help people to eschew falsehood and attain knowledge.

 

[SeventyOne]

Young Earth creationist Ken Ham of AIG seems to be upset by the rising tide of Flat Earthism.

In the past, one question I rarely ever received was, “What about the flat earth?” But now I hear it all the time!
...
In fact, it used to kind of be an insult thrown at creationists, “You guys must also believe in a flat earth, right?” (Spoiler: we don’t.)

And that’s why I’m excited about a new documentary hosted by The Creation Guys and produced by Awesome Science Media [and featuring] AiG’s Dr. Danny Faulkner.

If you know someone in the flat earth movement, I encourage you to share this documentary with them. And if you’re part of it, I respectfully encourage you to humbly view this film and reconsider your position.

---

I recently read Escaping the Rabbit Hole, by Mick West
Subtitled: How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories Using Facts, Logic, and Respect

It's a good book. One of the points he brings up is that there is a 'scale' of conspiracy theories from mundane to extreme. It's not that some people aren't conspiracy theorists and some people are. It's more that we all draw the line at different places. On the less extreme side, many people probably believe that pharmaceutical companies 'conspire' to place profits ahead of human health to some extent. Few people believe 9-11 was an inside job, and very few believe the Earth is flat (and NASA and bajillions of other people have conspired to hide the truth).

One of the techniques West proposes is when trying to help a friend out of conspiracy thinking, to both take a look at something that's just too extreme for your friend. Look at the flaws and evidence in the theory. And possibly, your friend will be more amenable to applying some of these same tools when you turn your attention to the conspiracy theory that he or she does believe in.

So, without really knowing anything about the contents of this DVD, I'd like to hope that it is wildly successful. And the Young Earth Creationists who absorb it and use it to talk down their flat earth friends will find something in it that makes them also apply this mode of thinking to their own ideas about any supposed conspiracy of scientists to uphold evolution by hiding the truth. It may make life easier for those of us working hard to slide people one more step down the scale.

I know, I know. Shower me with Optimistic tags.

Yea, great, they did documentaries. Guess that about wraps it up for flat earth. Except the flat-earthers are still actually out there doing actual measurements and finding... a flat earth.

Just even today and yesterday there were live updates of two separate tests, one at Myrtle Beach and another at the Salton Sea, and a couple weeks ago FECORE released the preliminary results of their massive distance surveying measurements test, and just like all the other hundreds to thousands of tests that have been conducted all over the plane the last few years, there is still no curvature. So, Ken and Dan can have their documentaries, and flat-earthers will continue with actual experimentation.

 

[Kate30]

As a descendant of the Enlightenment, and as a former science teacher, I want to help people to eschew falsehood and attain knowledge.

And what Enlightenment would Essentialsaltes pearly lips of wisdom like to bestow apon us today ? : )

 

[essentialsaltes]

And what Enlightenment would Essentialsaltes pearly lips of wisdom like to bestow apon us today ? : )

I didn't write this, but it'll do.

 

[Tanj]

Yea, great, they did documentaries. Guess that about wraps it up for flat earth. Except the flat-earthers are still actually out there doing actual measurements and finding... a flat earth.

Just even today and yesterday there were live updates of two separate tests, one at Myrtle Beach and another at the Salton Sea, and a couple weeks ago FECORE released the preliminary results of their massive distance surveying measurements test, and just like all the other hundreds to thousands of tests that have been conducted all over the plane the last few years, there is still no curvature. So, Ken and Dan can have their documentaries, and flat-earthers will continue with actual experimentation.

Meh, none of that matters.

I'll post for the 4th time what I always post to flat earthers.

In the northern hemisphere the stars appear to rotate anti-clockwise around a central point
In the southern hemisphere, the stars appear to rotate clockwise around a central point.

That cannot be explained by any flat earth model. In any flat earth model, regardless of where you are, all of the starts should seem to rotate in the same direction around the same central point. Only a sphere earth makes this simple observation work.

That's it. No fancy measurements, balloons, satellites, expensive equipment or rockets. Just a passport, airfare and a weeks holiday.

And the usual ending, same as the last 3 times I posted this. There's only 2 responses I have ever seen to this:
1) Ignore the post, pretend it never existed
2) Call everyone that lives in the southern hemisphere a liar.

Wonder which way you will go?

 

[Kate30]

Meh, none of that matters.

I'll post for the 4th time what I always post to flat earthers.

In the northern hemisphere the stars appear to rotate anti-clockwise around a central point
In the southern hemisphere, the stars appear to rotate clockwise around a central point.

That cannot be explained by any flat earth model. In any flat earth model, regardless of where you are, all of the starts should seem to rotate in the same direction around the same central point. Only a sphere earth makes this simple observation work.

That's it. No fancy measurements, balloons, satellites, expensive equipment or rockets. Just a passport, airfare and a weeks holiday.

And the usual ending, same as the last 3 times I posted this. There's only 2 responses I have ever seen to this:
1) Ignore the post, pretend it never existed
2) Call everyone that lives in the southern hemisphere a liar.

Wonder which way you will go?

Even the flatearth( ) I cant repeat the rest of his u tube name as it’s rather naughty. He is well known in flat earth circles but let’s say his first name is Jake. He admitted that all flat earth models fail when it comes to the Southern Hemisphere and showed many of the videos sent from people here in the Southern Hemisphere too. Especially with the time zones of where the sun should be. It sort of puts us in the dark when the skies are sunny and blue. : ) Another problem I do have with the flat earth. And that is where does the flat earth end. Or is it a endless plain as some do say. It’s something that I have never been able to get my mind around or comprehend.

 

[SeventyOne]

Meh, none of that matters.

I'll post for the 4th time what I always post to flat earthers.

In the northern hemisphere the stars appear to rotate anti-clockwise around a central point
In the southern hemisphere, the stars appear to rotate clockwise around a central point.

That cannot be explained by any flat earth model. In any flat earth model, regardless of where you are, all of the starts should seem to rotate in the same direction around the same central point. Only a sphere earth makes this simple observation work.

That's it. No fancy measurements, balloons, satellites, expensive equipment or rockets. Just a passport, airfare and a weeks holiday.

And the usual ending, same as the last 3 times I posted this. There's only 2 responses I have ever seen to this:
1) Ignore the post, pretend it never existed
2) Call everyone that lives in the southern hemisphere a liar.

Wonder which way you will go?

Actually, there have been numerous experiment models created, using a dome feature over a flat surface that exactly replicates that phenomenon. Your question has been answered and re-answered in recent years. You need some new material.

 

[Strathos]

Actually, there have been numerous experiment models created, using a dome feature over a flat surface that exactly replicates that phenomenon. Your question has been answered and re-answered in recent years. You need some new material.

Such as?

(Here's the point where he refuses to clarify and just says that we won't listen anyway so there's no point in telling us).

 

[SeventyOne]

Such as?

(Here's the point where he refuses to clarify and just says that we won't listen anyway so there's no point in telling us).

1. I think I added some of that info in past FE threads. Myself, I've had a hard drive crash a few weeks back and lost hundreds of informative FE links, including 3 or 4 of these. Meaning others will have to take responsibility for themselves.

2. Don't you ever speak about me in that manner and expect anything substantive from me in return. I've provided massive amounts of info about FE since last fall on thee threads, only to run up against people like you who only want to whine and complain. In fact, I'm done with toxic people like you. Enjoy the 'ignore' status. You've earned it.

 

[Ophiolite]

1. I think I added some of that info in past FE threads. Myself, I've had a hard drive crash a few weeks back and lost hundreds of informative FE links, including 3 or 4 of these. Meaning others will have to take responsibility for themselves.

2. Don't you ever speak about me in that manner and expect anything substantive from me in return. I've provided massive amounts of info about FE since last fall on thee threads, only to run up against people like you who only want to whine and complain. In fact, I'm done with toxic people like you. Enjoy the 'ignore' status. You've earned it.

Not so much. You want your viewpoint to be taken seriously, but you won't take the time to go back through your own posts to retrieve the links you've previously provided. That plays into Strathos' hands and makes his prediction of your avoidance tactics look pretty accurate.

For those of us trying very hard to adopt an open minded position how about putting in that effort?

 

[SeventyOne]

Not so much. You want your viewpoint to be taken seriously, but you won't take the time to go back through your own posts to retrieve the links you've previously provided. That plays into Strathos' hands and makes his prediction of your avoidance tactics look pretty accurate.

For those of us trying very hard to adopt an open minded position how about putting in that effort?

I'm responding to a baseless claim against my first post, not laying out the entire FE argument. If you want to point the finger at anyone, try asking Tanj to prove their assumption first. I'm not the one claiming others can't answer a particular question.

As for you taking it seriously or not is up to you alone. If you are relying on just me to 'prove' such a thing, you are wasting your time. I prefer people be responsible for themselves. And I'm not the least bit concerned about if I'm playing into anyone's hand or not. I've spent a lot of effort over the last 6-9 months dealing with the stupid accusations from people like Strathos, seeking to appease them. It was a fruitless endeavor and I'm done with him and a few others. They aren't worth any more of my time, regardless of how much they may moan about it or make additional whinny claims about me. I gave them many hours of my time over numerous months. I'm done and I owe them nothing.

 

[essentialsaltes]

... try asking Tanj to prove their assumption first. I'm not the one claiming others can't answer a particular question.

You could prove Tanj wrong by answering that particular question.

 

[Ophiolite]

As for you taking it seriously or not is up to you alone. If you are relying on just me to 'prove' such a thing, you are wasting your time. I prefer people be responsible for themselves. And I'm not the least bit concerned about if I'm playing into anyone's hand or not. I've spent a lot of effort over the last 6-9 months dealing with the stupid accusations from people like Strathos, seeking to appease them. It was a fruitless endeavor and I'm done with him and a few others. They aren't worth any more of my time, regardless of how much they may moan about it or make additional whinny claims about me. I gave them many hours of my time over numerous months. I'm done and I owe them nothing.

That's all well and good, but I'm not any of those people you are upset with and you've basically told me you are completely indifferent to my interest in the subject and I can basically - to use one of AV's phrases - take a hike. If that is your position I am at a loss to see why you are still posting.

Summary: I asked politely for your input; you implicitly told me to get lost. Noted.