The single biggest problem with the education system.

[OldWiseGuy]

There is no requirement to learn anything. The only requirement is to show up for class.

I remember one (of several) Army instructor who addressed my 'Surveying' class. Except for the sergeant stripes on his sleeves he was dressed in rumpled green fatigues like the rest of us. He was jovial as he introduced himself with bit of self-effacing humor, a crazy right eye that looked off to the side added to his decidedly unserious introduction.

Then he turned to his desk and retrieved some surveying study material, holding it up for all to see. Upon turning around his demeanor had changed to deadly seriousness as he proclaimed to us, "Gentlemen...you will learn this stuff."

And learn it we did.

 

[devin553344]

Thanks @OldWiseGuy should we all have drill instructors for our teachers in your mind? The kids probably wouldn't be able to abide? Being an ex-marine I can assure that idea! But I still like your idea.

 

[thecolorsblend]

America's educational model was established on the frontier. After that, it grew and grew and expanded and expanded but the basic model remains the same: gathering a bunch of strangers into a room to listen to someone older than them prattle on about a given subject.

That mode of education is obsolete. There are new models we should be experimenting with which utilize modern technology while also rewarding excellence.

The fact of the matter is that American education is a train wreck next to a dumpster fire in the middle of a you-know-what show and funding isn't the problem; lack of imagination and innovation are the problems.

 

[timothyu]

Comply with the system or rebel. But you better be smart enough if working outside the system. Education in not memorization but learning to think for oneself. Most of the true talent works and succeeds outside the system, but the system rewards those drones who bow to the norm and tries to punish free thinkers. Education stopped promoting free thinking 75 years ago.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Thanks @OldWiseGuy should we all have drill instructors for our teachers in your mind? The kids probably wouldn't be able to abide? Being an ex-marine I can assure that idea! But I still like your idea.

Our instructors were not DI's. Most were Specialists, trained as instructors.

The model in the army classes I took was...

Several different teachers for each subject so the material was presented in a slightly different way with each. I didn't get on to the use of logarithms until the third instructor. He spoke 'my language' and I finally understood it. Our instructors also turned the teaching over to us as well. We helped each other. It was like a classroom full of tutors for those who were struggling. In the end we all got it, with the added benefit of some great bonding. Helping each other eliminates any 'competition' that might have been carried over from civilian schooling experience. There were no grades, no pass/fail...only pass. Great system.

Another thing the aforementioned instructor said in a humorous way was that "except for mental defect everyone here can learn this material". Sadly there was one fellow who didn't get any of it. He was deficient mentally and should never have been in the class in the first place.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

America's educational model was established on the frontier. After that, it grew and grew and expanded and expanded but the basic model remains the same: gathering a bunch of strangers into a room to listen to someone older than them prattle on about a given subject.

That mode of education is obsolete. There are new models we should be experimenting with which utilize modern technology while also rewarding excellence.

The fact of the matter is that American education is a train wreck next to a dumpster fire in the middle of a you-know-what show and funding isn't the problem; lack of imagination and innovation are the problems.

The disciplined military model addresses the "I don't know and I don't care" attitude. Adding to the efficacy is the absence of distractions.

 

[devin553344]

Our instructors were not DI's. Most were Specialists, trained as instructors.

The model in the army classes I took was...

Several different teachers for each subject so the material was presented in a slightly different way with each. I didn't get on to the use of logarithms until the third instructor. He spoke 'my language' and I finally understood it. Our instructors also turned the teaching over to us as well. We helped each other. It was like a classroom full of tutors for those who were struggling. In the end we all got it, with the added benefit of some great bonding. Helping each other eliminates any 'competition' that might have been carried over from civilian schooling experience. There were no grades, no pass/fail...only pass. Great system.

Another thing the aforementioned instructor said in a humorous way was that "except for mental defect everyone here can learn this material". Sadly there was one fellow who didn't get any of it. He was deficient mentally and should never have been in the class in the first place.

Sure but we can't hold civilians to the level of military. They will never understand until they are pushed beyond their limits.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Comply with the system or rebel. But you better be smart enough if working outside the system. Education in not memorization but learning to think for oneself. Most of the true talent works and succeeds outside the system, but the system rewards those drones who bow to the norm and tries to punish free thinkers. Education stopped promoting free thinking 75 years ago.

There's too much 'free thinking' going on in our schools. Students should be thinking about the course work and nothing else.

 

[zephcom]

Our instructors were not DI's. Most were Specialists, trained as instructors.

The model in the army classes I took was...

Several different teachers for each subject so the material was presented in a slightly different way with each. I didn't get on to the use of logarithms until the third instructor. He spoke 'my language' and I finally understood it. Our instructors also turned the teaching over to us as well. We helped each other. It was like a classroom full of tutors for those who were struggling. In the end we all got it, with the added benefit of some great bonding. Helping each other eliminates any 'competition' that might have been carried over from civilian schooling experience. There were no grades, no pass/fail...only pass. Great system.

Another thing the aforementioned instructor said in a humorous way was that "except for mental defect everyone here can learn this material". Sadly there was one fellow who didn't get any of it. He was deficient mentally and should never have been in the class in the first place.

When I had classes in the Air Force, they graded the instructors on how many students passed the test. So all the instructors would interlace their lectures with, "SHOULD you see a question on the test which asks 'this', the right answer would be...."

I'm not sure that was the best way to train people either.

 

[devin553344]

There's too much 'free thinking' going on in our schools. Students should be thinking about the course work and nothing else.

I agree, we teach too much free thinking.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure but we can't hold civilians to the level of military. They will never understand until they are pushed beyond their limits.

The point is to insist that the kids learn what they are able to learn at their grade level. Schoolwork just isn't that hard. It's the attitudes and distractions that cause unnecessarily poor performance.

 

[devin553344]

The point is to insist that the kids learn what they are able to learn at their grade level. Schoolwork just isn't that hard. It's the attitudes and distractions that cause unnecessarily poor performance.

Sure but they're just civilian kids. And that's what we as military should respect? What do you think?

 

[usexpat97]

If I was Army, I would be highly motivated to learn. And if I was instructing military, I would be even more motivated to make sure they learn it. It is a matter of life and death.

I always saw that as the first thing you need to do for math students: motivate them. Math is very dry stuff. How am I going to use natural logarithms and partial derivatives in real life? Well, when you consider petroleum engineers use partial differential equations to send a shock wave into the ground and calculate based on the echo whether there's oil down there--and that those guys make $150,000 a year doing it--I find that VERY motivating.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When I had classes in the Air Force, they graded the instructors on how many students passed the test. So all the instructors would interlace their lectures with, "SHOULD you see a question on the test which asks 'this', the right answer would be...."

I'm not sure that was the best way to train people either.

Isn't the purpose of education to infuse the student with the right answers? Another problem with the system is that knowledge is parceled out in a niggardly manner. Much of what is to be learned can simply be told to the students, without the dog and pony show. What is happening is that they are teaching at the level of what they imagine the 'slowest' learner would be. So many sit in class bored to death (I was). Teaching must be a mix of classroom instruction and tutoring. Only then can the progress of each student be assured to the extent possible.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure but they're just civilian kids. And that's what we as military should respect? What do you think?

The whole civilian system should respect the military methods and to the extent that is appropriate imitate them.

Education is either serious business...or it's not. If it is we need change. If not, just continue as is.

 

[devin553344]

The whole civilian system should respect the military methods and to the extent that is appropriate imitate them.

That sounds like a military state system. Is that good?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That sounds like a military state system. Is that good?

We are a mandated state system now, with an inefficient teaching/learning model; the worst of two worlds.

 

[timothyu]

There's too much 'free thinking' going on in our schools. Students should be thinking about the course work and nothing else.

The only one that thinking benefits is authourity and it is the authourity of man, not God so it is on weak foundations and needs the masses to comply.

 

[devin553344]

We a mandated state system now, with an inefficient teaching/learning model; the worst of two worlds.

Agreed. It is sad that we have a degraded learning system. But we do support our president and from there all leaders down to teachers. I think. We must pray for our teachers. In God's name, amen!

 

[timothyu]

What is happening is that they are teaching at the level of what they imagine the 'slowest' learner would be.

The slower they teach the greater the debt of the student. Education has become a business in some countries rather than a right.