Argument for God's existence.

[Moral Orel]

Well, I believe mockery has its place. It can be a form of tough love. It’s a sign that what you’ve said is so terribly misguided that it doesn’t even deserve to be heard out. You don’t agree that there are some ideas so egregiously backwards that they should be mocked?

I agree with you. I taught my kid to mock racism. Around the house I say overtly racist and stupid things in a thick Southern accent, and it makes him laugh because it's all so ridiculous. Thing is though, that no matter how ridiculous I make my statements, some folks hold those actual sentiments. His grandmother actually said something racist to me while arguing about politics, and he heard and burst into laughter. She noticed he was laughing at her and was embarrassed. I know "respect your elders" and all that, but that is the exact response I was going for.

I mock impolite people too. I know it makes me a bit of a sociopath, but I enjoy manipulating people's emotions. I can make it so that people feel good or bad, and it's all fun for me. So when folks are rude people, I have a bit of fun at their expense. If folks are polite, I enjoy cheering them up when they're down too. I'm nice to nice people because I want to interact with them more. I'm mean to rude people because I could care less if I hear from them again. Does that make me a bad person? Probably.

 

[createdtoworship]

Well, I believe mockery has its place. It can be a form of tough love. It’s a sign that what you’ve said is so terribly misguided that it doesn’t even deserve to be heard out. You don’t agree that there are some ideas so egregiously backwards that they should be mocked?

when you mock people you are not loving them. When I grew up people in my high school would mock homosexuals and those with mental illness. Then later in life I realized that my aunt was a lesbian, and my own child would have autism. So no, I don't think mocking has a place anywhere in this world. A polite correction goes so much further. When people are mocked they just shut you out, and they won't listen to you.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. Ephesians 5:3-4 nkjv

 

[gaara4158]

when you mock people you are not loving them. When I grew up people in my high school would mock homosexuals and those with mental illness. Then later in life I realized that my aunt was a lesbian, and my own child would have autism. So no, I don't think mocking has a place anywhere in this world. A polite correction goes so much further. When people are mocked they just shut you out, and they won't listen to you.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. Ephesians 5:3-4 nkjv

Well, that’s just another philosophical difference between you and me.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Invalid argument. The maker of the painting did not exist uncaused, he had parents, and they had theirs, and so on.

You also suppose that an imagined "maker" of the universe had no beginning; there is no reason to not apply that same argument to the universe itself. You're merely pushing the "uncaused cause" one step back.

No, something can logically be a cause and not be an effect, therefore would not need a cause. Almost all the scientific evidence points to the universe being an effect. It has a beginning, ie the Big Bang, and it changes. These are both characteristics of an effect. Therefore, if the universe is an effect, it needs a cause. And the Christian God is a Cause but not an effect and fits the characteristics best for being the cause of this universe.

 

[createdtoworship]

Duplicate

 

[gaara4158]

No, something can logically be a cause and not be an effect, therefore would not need a cause. Almost all the scientific evidence points to the universe being an effect. It has a beginning, ie the Big Bang, and it changes. These are both characteristics of an effect. Therefore, if the universe is an effect, it needs a cause. And the Christian God is a Cause but not an effect and fits the characteristics best for being the cause of this universe.

Sounds airtight... if we already knew God existed, we could very rationally hypothesize that God is the cause of the universe.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Sounds airtight... if we already knew God existed, we could very rationally hypothesize that God is the cause of the universe.

No, you have it backwards. We know the universe exists and just like scientists do every day we study the characteristics of this effect/universe, and come to the conclusion that it has a cause basically identical to the Christian God.

 

[gaara4158]

No, you have it backwards. We know the universe exists and just like scientists do every day we study the characteristics of this effect/universe, and come to the conclusion that it has a cause basically identical to the Christian God.

Really? Alright, show me the logical steps.

 

[RichardY]

@gradyll Atheists aren't open to God, let alone Christianity. The term Atheist, is problematic in itself.

Agnostics neither hot nor cold. Maybe there's God, maybe there isn't.... Perhaps somethings are Evil, perhaps people have freewill and the entire basis of what the Legal system was based on, i.e God and Christianity has merit.

There are no arguments for God, God just is. "Justice".

 

[ananda]

No, something can logically be a cause and not be an effect, therefore would not need a cause. Almost all the scientific evidence points to the universe being an effect. It has a beginning, ie the Big Bang, and it changes. These are both characteristics of an effect. Therefore, if the universe is an effect, it needs a cause. And the Christian God is a Cause but not an effect and fits the characteristics best for being the cause of this universe.

Have you observed this "Cause but not an effect" for yourself? Or, point to anything observably uncaused?

 

[createdtoworship]

I just found this song today, it's a great song for people who are doubting their faith, and questioning Christianity:

 

[createdtoworship]

I’ve read the Bible. It’s words on a page unless you have evidence that your god is real. And so far, you haven’t done a very good job of it.

In fact, one of Christian friends is convinced your an atheist trying to make Christians look bad. I don’t believe this is true, but you should know that Christians may think this to be true...

this one is priceless, that I am actually an undercover atheist trying to make christians look bad. I was just scanning all your posts where you were insulting me and flaming me, this one made me laugh. Don't worry I won't report you, at least on that issue. But you are one bitter soul, that's why I am actually intrigued by you. When you throw a rock into a pack of wolves the ones who yelp the loudest are the ones that got hit. Something clearly struck a chord with you.

 

[createdtoworship]

Your probability falsely assumes that there are only 2 space on your roulette wheel (Christian god exists, Christian god doesn’t exist), which is an error. There’s an almost infinite number of spaces describing an almost infinite number of god/bad afterlife scenarios.

This has been pointed out to you before, but I thought I’d bring it up again for those just joining in.

this one is humorous to me too. An infinite number of possibilities is something you could never, ever, ever, ever in an infinite amount of time prove.

 

[createdtoworship]

I now have three Christian friends who say you’re doing more harm than good. And I have an acquaintance who’s deconverted partly because of it threads like yours.

That, to me, is evidence that you’re doing more harm than good. Now, you might have different definitions for “harm” and “good”, so perhaps you think your results are “good”.

this is the other post I like. You are doing my job for me. I love to exhort christians into true christianity, and you are doing the Lords work for me. Thanks.

 

[createdtoworship]

There’s an almost infinite number of potential hells where the torture is at least equal to the Christian hell.

So talk to me about odds again...

here you are again, alleging the infinite possibilities situation. If you had infinite time allotted to you and infinite resources, you would still not be able to prove this claim.

 

[createdtoworship]

Like we’ve said over and over, we don’t have to “prove” an origin to the universe. If you understood the burden of proof, you’d understand that. In fact, if you understood the topic even a little bit, you’d know we haven’t “lost”.

But thanks for reinforcing the idea that you only care about what you perceive as “winning”, and not about the affect your posts have on people susceptible to deconverting.

FYI, the woman I’ve been talking to is seriously reconsidering her faith, thanks in part to threads like this one.

But I’m sure you’ll have an excuse for that...

here you say that you don't have to prove your assertions, but I have to prove mine. I get it. And this is apparently causing a great apostacy in the christian church. Well, that is ok bud. Clean the church out. But I doubt it is posts like this doing it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

here you say that you don't have to prove your assertions, but I have to prove mine. I get it. And this is apparently causing a great apostacy in the christian church. Well, that is ok bud. Clean the church out. But I doubt it is posts like this doing it.

gradyll, you're priceless. @ToddNotTodd , your patience in giving gradyll the rope to hang himself is paying off.

 

[createdtoworship]

gradyll, you're priceless. @ToddNotTodd , your patience in giving gradyll the rope to hang himself is paying off.

thanks for the comment. As far as hanging myself logically speaking, all I can say is that last will be first, and the first will be last. Don't think of yourself more highly than you ought.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

thanks for the comment. As far as hanging myself logically speaking, all I can say is that last will be first, and the first will be last. Don't think of yourself more highly than you ought.

Sometimes the best way of recruiting atheists is to let the Christians prepare the ground for us. There are a lot of Christians on CF who are happy to do that.

 

[Moral Orel]

here you say that you don't have to prove your assertions, but I have to prove mine.

Still with the dishonesty. This is why no one should believe your personal testimony. You have no interest in telling the truth. Todd never asserted that he knows the origins of the universe either. Only you have done that, that's why you're shifting the burden of proof.