Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

[Copperhead]

I see nothing in the Bible where Jews would continue to be God's chosen, simply on account of their birth regardless of their rejection of Christ due to that the Bible plainly states that those who deny the Son are of the devil. Are we to suggest that rejection of Christ is only a damnable offense if committed by a non-Jew?

When the restoration begins....

Ezekiel 36:22-24 (NKJV) “Therefore say to the house of Israel, “Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

It has nothing to do with the actions of the Hebrew people, it has everything to do what Yahweh keeping His promises. It is why I like to call Israel "the believer's insurance policy". If Yahweh can be trusted to honor His promises to the Hebrew people, then He is faithful to honor His promises to the believers. Likewise, if He cannot be trusted to honor His promises to Israel, then there is no basis to believe that He will honor His promises to those who have placed their trust in Him.

 

[LovesOurLord]

Why would it be unfortunate? The scripture is pretty clear that the restoration of Israel would begin with them initially in unbelief. That they are not singing praises to Yeshua on a national level yet does not mean that it is not scriptural what has happened.

There is zero scriptural indication that people who actively reject Christ are anything but hell-bound and sons of the devil - regardless of their ethnicity. You seem to think there is some special set-aside for Jews, regardless of their rejection, regardless of their faithlessness, regardless of their treatment of Christians. Where are these verses, please?

"For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." - 1 Thess. 2:14-16.

Israel outlaws Christian proselytism. The New Testament is full of Jews who reject Christ persecuting the early church, killing them, and running them out of towns. These verses alone proves the wrath of God is upon them for that behavior.

FURTHERMORE, you seem unaware that Rabbinic Judaism teaches not only that Christ is boiling in hell in feces, but also that fortune-telling is acceptable. The Talmud contains stories of the use of astrology, palm reading, and face reading by the revered Jewish sages. It also teaches that the Judges were chosen by means of palm and face reading. Do you find that Godly, sir?

 

[LovesOurLord]

When the restoration begins....

Ezekiel 36:22-24 (NKJV) “Therefore say to the house of Israel, “Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

It has nothing to do with the actions of the Hebrew people, it has everything to do what Yahweh keeping His promises. It is why I like to call Israel "the believer's insurance policy". If Yahweh can be trusted to honor His promises to the Hebrew people, then He is faithful to honor His promises to the believers. Likewise, if He cannot be trusted to honor His promises to Israel, then there is no basis to believe that He will honor His promises to those who have placed their trust in Him.

Quoting one verse ripped out of any context with whole-scripture teachings on the subject isn't legitimate theology. You're claiming that there is an open-ended, standing "promise" to the Jews by God regardless of their behavior, regardless of their rejection of Him. I have already posted above a body verses that prove otherwise.

 

[Copperhead]

I'm wondering how you rationalize the idea that a country founded explicitly by a group of anti-Christian, anti-Christ, Jesus-rejecting secular leftists is a special place in God's eyes. Not only do they reject Christ, but Christian churches continue to be vandalized by Jews and Christian pilgrims harassed. It seems you're taking a few Bible verses out of context and placing people on a pedestal due to their ethnicity.

The OT and NT both state that the behavior of Jews regarding their acceptance or rejection of God is directly related to their continuing to be His people and allowed to live on that land.

And what's wrong with the BDS movement? It's kind of odd to invoke the evil of Hitler in the same post where you're going out of your way to defend a country founded on ethnoreligious discrimination and the ethnic cleansing of Gentiles.

How then did Yahweh rationalize using a pagan leader of an empire to free the hebrew people to allow them to return to the land? And predicted it some 200 years before that pagan leader was even born. Of course, I refer to Cyrus.

The Lord uses whomever He wishes to use to accomplish His purpose.

And the promises made regarding the Hebrew people will always be a people of the Lord, Yahweh said that as long as the sun is out by day, the moon is out by night, and the wave roar upon the seashore, Jacob (Israel) would always be a people before Him. That doesn't mean that they would not be punished periodically, or that they would be put out of the land at times, but it does mean that the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are forever.

 

[Copperhead]

Quoting one verse ripped out of any context with whole-scripture teachings on the subject isn't legitimate theology. You're claiming that there is an open-ended, standing "promise" to the Jews by God regardless of their behavior, regardless of their rejection of Him. I have already posted above a body verses that prove otherwise.

How was it ripped out of context? And there is an open ended standing promise to the Hebrew people.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 (NKJV) Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The Lord of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
37 Thus says the Lord:
“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the Lord.

And that is on the heals of this passage.....

Jeremiah 31:31-33 (NKJV) Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The entire context is the literal descendents of Jacob.

 

[LovesOurLord]

You go where the preponderant weight of evidence leads you.

There are two covenants: Race and Grace.

Where does the Bible say that one gets to be the apple of God's eye on account of his race while they spit in the face of Christ?

 

[LovesOurLord]

How then did Yahweh rationalize using a pagan leader of an empire to free the hebrew people to allow them to return to the land? And predicted it some 200 years before that pagan leader was even born. Of course, I refer to Cyrus.

The Lord uses whomever He wishes to use to accomplish His purpose.

And the promises made regarding the Hebrew people will always be a people of the Lord, Yahweh said that as long as the sun is out by day, the moon is out by night, and the wave roar upon the seashore, Jacob (Israel) would always be a people before Him. That doesn't mean that they would not be punished periodically, or that they would be put out of the land at times, but it does mean that the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are forever.

This is a complete dodge. Where does the Bible that the Hebrews will always be the people of the Lord regardless of their behavior and rejection of the Lord? I've posted many verses that prove this wrong and you aren't supporting your viewpoint in the least.

 

[Grip Docility]

Where does the Bible say that one gets to be the apple of God's eye while they spit in the face of Christ on account of his race?

We were all once "enemies of God" according to Paul.

Before the whole... The Jews Killed God verbiage starts getting slung around, The Jews, though falsely, accused God and handed Him over. The Gentiles did the torturing, spitting, and crucifying... so... in the big picture... All humanity participated in the MURDER of God.

Along that line... Didn't Jesus say... "Father forgive them"?

 

[LovesOurLord]

It can only mean the literal descendents of Jacob.

It's an open-ended standing promise to those who are faithful to God, not those who were born of a certain race of people. I've already posted verses that show this.

 

[LovesOurLord]

We were all once "enemies of God" according to Paul.

Before the whole... The Jews Killed God verbiage starts getting slung around, The Jews, though falsely, accused God and handed Him over. The Gentiles did the torturing, spitting, and crucifying... so... in the big picture... All humanity participated in the MURDER of God.

Along that line... Didn't Jesus say... "Father forgive them"?

You seem to be trying to fend off a non-existent antisemitic enemy rather than addressing God's attitude toward Jews who rejected Him and persecuted His Church.

 

[Grip Docility]

This is a complete dodge. Where does the Bible that the Hebrews will always be the people of the Lord regardless of their behavior and rejection of the Lord? I've posted many verses that prove this wrong and you aren't supporting your viewpoint in the least.

Jesus foretold the Destruction of the Temple... He cursed the Fig Tree before the Disciples...

But then... He also says to look for the buds of the tree to become tender.

Dry Bones, oh, those old dry bones.

 

[Grip Docility]

You seem to be trying to fend off a non-existent antisemitic enemy rather than addressing God's attitude toward Jews who rejected Him and persecuted His Church.

He was livid! They got theirs. Satan leveled them. Now God is up to it again, showing that He can resurrect anyone/Any Nation.... He pleases.

Seriously... there's this thing called the UN that encompasses the whole globe. It's growing to be majority Islamic and it is very faithfully against the existence of Israel.

Same God.... Same adversary... only now we can put the bible down, midway through the OT and see it beginning again.

Israel wanted a divorce from God and simultaneously widowed themselves.

What happens when we remove ourselves from the Hand of God?

Honest Exegeting of Romans 9

The Parable of the Persistent Widow
Luke 18:1 He then told them a parable on the need for them to pray always and not become discouraged: 2 “There was a judge in a certain town who didn’t fear God 3 And a widow in that town kept coming to him, saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ 4 “For a while he was unwilling, but later he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or respect man, 5 yet because this widow keeps pestering me, I will give her justice, so she doesn’t wear me out by her persistent coming.’”

6 Then the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says.7 Will not God grant justice to His elect who cry out to Him day and night? Will He delay to help them? I tell you that He will swiftly grant them justice. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?”

 

[Grip Docility]

Where does the Bible say that one gets to be the apple of God's eye on account of his race while they spit in the face of Christ?

Oh and Romans 9-11 is a good "start"...

Paul spells it out... BRB, and I haven't even taken the contextual latitude given yet that blows away doubt that Romans 11 spells out PAINFULLY Clearly.



Link to come

 

[Copperhead]

There is zero scriptural indication that people who actively reject Christ are anything but hell-bound and sons of the devil - regardless of their ethnicity. You seem to think there is some special set-aside for Jews, regardless of their rejection, regardless of their faithlessness, regardless of their treatment of Christians. Where are these verses, please?

"For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." - 1 Thess. 2:14-16.

Israel outlaws Christian proselytism. The New Testament is full of Jews who reject Christ persecuting the early church, killing them, and running them out of towns. These verses alone proves the wrath of God is upon them for that behavior.

FURTHERMORE, you seem unaware that Rabbinic Judaism teaches not only that Christ is boiling in hell in feces, but also that fortune-telling is acceptable. The Talmud contains stories of the use of astrology, palm reading, and face reading by the revered Jewish sages. It also teaches that the Judges were chosen by means of palm and face reading. Do you find that Godly, sir?

There are most definitely problems with Rabbinic Judaism. But just like not all "christians" are observant, not all Jews adhere to Judaism. And of course, there are varying degrees of observance even within Rabbinc Judaism. Just like there are many sects and denominations of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc, there are differing sects and branches of Judaism..... including Messianic Judaism. Don't fall into the fallacy of equating a group of people on the basis of religion. Jews are born into the bloodline. Judaism is just theology. Christians are not born physically as Christians but it is a choice later. One can be a Jew by physical birth. N one can be a Christian by physical birth. So don't equate Jew and Judaism.

The more orthodox sects of Judaism have the upper hand in Israel today, no doubt. And many do see Messianic thought as a threat. But one of the most venerated Chassidic Rabbi of all time in modern Israel, Yitzhak Kaduri, proclaimed the Yeshua was indeed the promised Messiah. He did it publicly using a mystical twist of Rabbinic Judaism... He left a note that was not to be opened till one year after his death. In that sect of rabbinic Judaism, one cannot say anything negative about a person 1 year after their death. When the note was opened, Kaduri had written the Name of Yeshua as being the Messiah. Really ticked off many in the Orthodox community, but they could do nothing about it.

Many of his students are on video record as accepting Yeshua as the promised Messiah and claim that Kaduri was instrumental in their coming to faith. So while one might like to take it out on Rabbinic Judaism, the eyes are being opened as the scripture said they would. And Rabbi Kaduri, even in death, is probably instrumental in more Jews accepting Yeshua than most believers.

What is sad is that the gospel was and still is to be taken to the Hebrews first, then the Gentile and instead many believers hold positions that are denigrating of Hebrews and wouldn't show the love of Yeshua to a Jew if their life depended on it. And given the rather shameful history of the church's treatment of Hebrew people, it is really no wonder why they despise Christians or at best, leery of Christian motives. I despise and mistrust Communists given the history of Communism and first hand seeing how Communism chews people up and spits them out. Really no difference than the perception the Hebrew people regarding Christianity.

Oh, well, one of the major judgements of people will be how they treated the Hebrew people. That is confirmed in both OT and NT.

 

[Dave L]

Another name for it is Two House Theology or Two House Movement. Does that help?

But to assist.....

https://torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/Two House Fatal Errors.pdf

Not a clue so far. If it helps, I stay away from Dispensationalism thinking it is all false prophecy.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, I don't deny that the doctrine that the Church has become Israel exists. But that doctrine was proved wrong in 1948.

I would say come to grips with reality and devout your attention to the parable of the fig tree. Accept that Israel is a nation again, with Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews. And formulate your eschatology and the blessed hope evidenced by that reality.

Make the Kingdom of Heaven a priority, store up treasure in heaven, and look forward to the blessed hope of Jesus's appearing for redemption of your body, the corruptible putting on incorruptible.

You are walking by sight and not by faith. 1948 has nothing to do with prophecy.

 

[Grip Docility]

There are most definitely problems with Rabbinic Judaism. But just like not all "christians" are observant, not all Jews adhere to Judaism. And of course, there are varying degrees of observance even within Rabbinc Judaism. Just like there are many sects and denominations of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc, there are differing sects and branches of Judaism..... including Messianic Judaism. Don't fall into the fallacy of equating a group of people on the basis of religion. Jews are born into the bloodline. Judaism is just theology. Christians are not born physically as Christians but it is a choice later.

The more orthodox sects of Judaism have the upper hand in Israel today. And many do see Messianic thought as a threat. But one of the most venerated Chassidic Rabbi's of all time in modern Israel, Yitzhak Kaduri, proclaimed the Yeshua was indeed the promised Messiah. He did it publicly using a mystical twist of Rabbinic Judaism... He left a note that was not to be opened till one year after his death. In that sect of rabbinic Judaism, one cannot say anything negative about a person 1 year after their death. When the note was opened, Kaduri had written the Name of Yeshua as being the Messiah.

Many of his students are on video record as accepting Yeshua as the promised Messiah and claim that Kaduri was instrumental in their coming to faith. So while one might like to take it out on Rabbinic Judaism, the eyes are being opened as the scripture said it would. And Rabbi Kaduri, even in death, is probably instrumental in more Jews accepting Yeshua than most believers.

What is sad is that the gospel was and still is to be taken to the Hebrews first, then the Gentile and instead many believers hold positions that are denigrating of Hebrews. And given the rather shameful history of the church's treatment of Hebrew people, it is really no wonder why they despise Christians or at best, leery of Christian motives. I despise and mistrust Communists given the history of Communism and first hand seeing how Communism chews people up and spits them out. Really no difference than the perception the Hebrew people regarding Christianity.

I always remind myself that they're awaiting their Messiah.

Spoiler Alert.

 

[Grip Docility]

Not a clue so far. If it helps, I stay away from Dispensationalism thinking it is all false prophecy.

Dave... Jesus is the true Temple of the Jews. In Acts 1 I perpetually ask people to honestly exegete the question the Apostles ask and then honestly exegete what Christ follows up with... in two parts.

Jesus then goes forward and ascends. The angels are enormously clear how He will return. The text includes where He left from. How is this false?

 

[Dave L]

Dave... Jesus is the true Temple of the Jews. In Acts 1 I perpetually ask people to honestly exegete the question the Apostles ask and then honestly exegete what Christ follows up with... in two parts.

Jesus then goes forward and ascends. The angels are enormously clear how He will return. The text includes where He left from. How is this false?

You begin with false Dispie definitions and make a bigger mess of scripture from there.

 

[Grip Docility]

You begin with false Dispie definitions and make a bigger mess of scripture from there.

False Dispie?

Hold up... I believe all scripture is for All people. I also assert that the BOC and Israel are one in Jesus.

The Apostles were Jews. They asked Jesus, also a JEW, a Jewish question that had literal Earthly implications.

If reading contextually correct is "False Dispie" definitions... you may well make a full blown Dispie out of me yet.

It's a short passage, would you kindly exegete it out and explain how I'm missing something?