Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

[throughfiierytrial]

The Bible never mentions abortion.

The word *abortion* does not show up, no, but the Bible does say some things which shed light on the matter of God's watchfulness and concern for the unborn...
Exodus 21:21-26:
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (NIV 2011)

According to this command we see that the Lord views the death of a fetus via outside interference/trauma as the ending of a life and in those cases the life of the one who causes the trauma resulting in the death of the fetus is to be taken....this is identical to the retribution commanded for the death of those living outside the womb. (life for life).

If our Lord views the unborn fetus as a life to protect then why would one presume that abortion is just fine with the Lord, anything to keep from inconveniencing a woman who MUST have her RIGHT over HER body...even though it is killing a human/murdering a human? Does abortion sound like Biblical wisdom or more like wisdom of the world? Judge it yourself.

This passage may help you make a determination...
Deuteronomy 32:39:
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

women control their own bodies... from conception ?

human rights begin then & there ?? "Viable" human life has human rights ???

Your point? Making us prove our positions or this is where you stand?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

women control their own bodies... from conception ?

human rights begin then & there ?? "Viable" human life has human rights ???

According to God, Yes, the "viable" human life has rights...see my post above...#101 on Scripture wisdom on viable life rights.

 

[marineimaging]

Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

May 17, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — A recent national poll shows a majority of Americans hold that banning abortions after the sixth week of pregnancy is not “too restrictive” and young people are more likely than their elders to judge laws banning abortion after six weeks as “too lenient.”

View attachment 256723

Women and men united in support of greater restrictions on abortion
The poll shows that women (53 percent) and men (57 percent) share approximately the same level of concern about lax abortion laws, debunking hyperbolic claims by supporters of the multi-billion-dollar abortion industry.

Several prominent Democrat politicians seeking their party’s nomination for the 2020 presidential election against pro-life President Donald Trump, such as New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker, have decried the legislation, asserting that heartbeat bills are an assault on women and that “abortion is healthcare.”

More at link: Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

I for one would like to see abortion banned and outlawed all together, including incest and rape. Killing the child in the womb, regardless of how they were conceived, means that we are allowing men to state that God can't turn that tragedy into something for His glory. It means we and they know better than God. The mother is a victim and just like all other situations were a victim is created God has control of all things. Including what happens to that child as they grow and to that mother, be she a victim or else.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Murder is a legal term meaning the unlawful taking of a human life. Abortion is not illegal thus not murder.

As a Christian do you believe Scripture or the laws of the world reign supreme and govern our conduct?
see my post above (#101)

 

[Fantine]

It is interesting that in vitro fertilization clinics, where early stage embryos are created, stored, discarded, or donated for scientific research are not affected.

I can't help but wonder if it's because affluent couples (gay or straight) are more sympathetic and influential than single women who lacked insurance coverage for contraception.

The embryos created are no different than those conceived biologically. Look around. They are probably attending school and playing ball with your children today.

They differ in that their parents have more political clout--and because IVF involves both men and women.

 

[usexpat97]

I don't think the heartbeat bills are too restrictive, either; especially when they are STATE laws. But it's a two-edged sword: that means it's okay when New York and Vermont pass bills allowing the opposite. If pro-lifers were open to compromise, I would be open to the states' heartbeat bills. But if they're not, then I'm not.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It is interesting that in vitro fertilization clinics, where early stage embryos are created, stored, discarded, or donated for scientific research are not affected.

I can't help but wonder if it's because affluent couples (gay or straight) are more sympathetic and influential than single women who lacked insurance coverage for contraception.

The embryos created are no different than those conceived biologically. Look around. They are probably attending school and playing ball with your children today.

They differ in that their parents have more political clout--and because IVF involves both men and women.

If, your post is meant to somehow deflate or dismiss our arguments and stand against the gruesome abortion laws across this country...in some cases near or at birth abortions with discussions (by Democrats) of even going so far as legalizing infanticide, it doesn't make your case. That's another issue we Christians fight.Join us...shine your light...onward Christian soldier.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I don't think the heartbeat bills are too restrictive, either; especially when they are STATE laws. But it's a two-edged sword: that means it's okay when New York and Vermont pass bills allowing the opposite. If pro-lifers were open to compromise, I would be open to the states' heartbeat bills. But if they're not, then I'm not.

Christians must not compromise their faith. That being given, please explain your stand a little more fully for those of us who have not read all your previous posts. I am pro-life b/c it is my God-given conviction based on Scripture that this is where I should be on the abortion issue. IMO, abortion being practiced in a country is an evil evidencing the rotting core of that country. We have lost connection with our head, who is Christ...as Apostle Paul would state.

 

[Fantine]

If, your post is meant to somehow deflate or dismiss our arguments and stand against the gruesome abortion laws across this country...in some cases near or at birth abortions with discussions (by Democrats) of even going so far as legalizing infanticide, it doesn't make your case. That's another issue we Christians fight.Join us...shine your light...onward Christian soldier.

My post was meant to encourage consistency. If life begins at conception, no more IVF, ever.

As a woman, I have heard many times that the legislatures, primarily composed of men, are anti-woman.

When they allow rapists to get visitation or custody of their victim's child, they reinforce that belief.

When they say couples (i.e. men included) can dispose of their IVF embryos, they reinforce that belief.

When they say to men who have enjoyed sex all their lives that they should get viagra for free, and tell women who may have medical reasons to avoid pregnancy that they should be abstinent, they reinforce that belief.

I say "embryos conceived through IVF should have whatever protections other embryos do." I am accused of trying to deflate the argument.

With no mention of IVF. I can only assume you believe disposing of embryos conceived through IVF IS OK.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

My post was meant to encourage consistency. If life begins at conception, no more IVF, ever.

As a woman, I have heard many times that the legislatures, primarily composed of men, are anti-woman.

When they allow rapists to get visitation or custody of their victim's child, they reinforce that belief.

When they say couples (i.e. men included) can dispose of their IVF embryos, they reinforce that belief.

When they say to men who have enjoyed sex all their lives that they should get viagra for free, and tell women who may have medical reasons to avoid pregnancy that they should be abstinent, they reinforce that belief.

I say "embryos conceived through IVF should have whatever protections other embryos do." I am accused of trying to deflate the argument.

With no mention of IVF. I can only assume you believe disposing of embryos conceived through IVF IS OK.

What a wrong assumption! Pardon me if I misunderstood you, however, you are sounding very fashionably woke...this is only a write-in venue after all and it is sometimes tough to truly understand the other writers...need their voices. You changed the subject from abortion to IVF embryos which I am pretty ignorant of only b/c I do not know what IVF stands for. I do know about the many wrong uses of embryos and know the issue to some extent that way. We are always to be governed by our Christian principles...found in the Bible.This is to our benefit and makes seemingly gray areas a black and white decision. God gives us tests and trials to bear up under...I pray you stand the test!

 

[GodLovesCats]

IVF = in-vitro fertilization. It should not be discussed in this thread, but I started one about IVF and other procedures used to conceive babies in the Abortion section.

 

[Fantine]

I did not intend to flout a rule. In articles I had read about the heartbeat law and an accompanying bill about the personhood of the fetus it was pointed out as being conspicuous in its absence.

Because I can only look at the two holistically I will drop out of this discussion.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Birth is another possible dividing line that isn't arbitrary.

I'm not clear on why it isn't arbitrary.

 

[Yekcidmij]

In my opinion the whole modern anti-abortion is playing on people's emotions. The whole concept of a heartbeat bill is a sales tactic.

Doesn't this mischaracterize people who don't believe it's a sale's tactic? And why mischaracterize them like that? What benefit do you get from doing that?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Murder is a legal term meaning the unlawful taking of a human life. Abortion is not illegal thus not murder.

I think you're confusing legality with morality. The fact of something being legal does not mean that it's moral.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I think you're confusing legality with morality. The fact of something being legal does not mean that it's moral.

I don't think Kiwi or anyone else said just because something is legal it must be moral. Murder is defined, except in cases of murdering a pregnant woman, as killing a person who is already born. Whether legality and morality intersect in law school textbooks doesn't matter when a nation that was founded on freedom of religion must decide what the political definition of murder is.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I don't think Kiwi or anyone else said just because something is legal it must be moral. Murder is defined, except in cases of murdering a pregnant woman, as killing a person who is already born. Whether legality and morality intersect in law school textbooks doesn't matter when a nation that was founded on freedom of religion must decide what the political definition of murder is.

The laws vary somewhat now, but I believe most states treat the murder of a pregnant woman as a double murder and an assault or battery on a pregnant woman carries charges against the unborn baby as well as the woman. Some states are now challenging these good laws because they are beginning to see their double standard.
As for God's law for the unborn I already posted in post #101 that God commands justice for these unborn. I'll attempt to copy/paste that post here in the event you are not acquainted with these Scriptures yet.
Begin quote here (post 101)...
The word *abortion* does not show up, no, but the Bible does say some things which shed light on the matter of God's watchfulness and concern for the unborn...
Exodus 21:21-26:
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (NIV 2011)

According to this command we see that the Lord views the death of a fetus via outside interference/trauma as the ending of a life and in those cases the life of the one who causes the trauma resulting in the death of the fetus is to be taken....this is identical to the retribution commanded for the death of those living outside the womb. (life for life).

If our Lord views the unborn fetus as a life to protect then why would one presume that abortion is just fine with the Lord, anything to keep from inconveniencing a woman who MUST have her RIGHT over HER body...even though it is killing a human/murdering a human? Does abortion sound like Biblical wisdom or more like wisdom of the world? Judge it yourself.

This passage may help you make a determination...
Deuteronomy 32:39:
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The Bible never mentions abortion.

The Bible never uses the word TRINITY either, but we know God is Triune. And He made Himself abundantly clear about His view of the unborn: What does the Bible say about abortion?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The laws vary somewhat now, but I believe most states treat the murder of a pregnant woman as a double murder and an assault or battery on a pregnant woman carries charges against the unborn baby as well as the woman. Some states are now challenging these good laws because they are beginning to see their double standard.
As for God's law for the unborn I already posted in post #101 that God commands justice for these unborn. I'll attempt to copy/paste that post here in the event you are not acquainted with these Scriptures yet.
Begin quote here (post 101)...
The word *abortion* does not show up, no, but the Bible does say some things which shed light on the matter of God's watchfulness and concern for the unborn...
Exodus 21:21-26:
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (NIV 2011)

According to this command we see that the Lord views the death of a fetus via outside interference/trauma as the ending of a life and in those cases the life of the one who causes the trauma resulting in the death of the fetus is to be taken....this is identical to the retribution commanded for the death of those living outside the womb. (life for life).

If our Lord views the unborn fetus as a life to protect then why would one presume that abortion is just fine with the Lord, anything to keep from inconveniencing a woman who MUST have her RIGHT over HER body...even though it is killing a human/murdering a human? Does abortion sound like Biblical wisdom or more like wisdom of the world? Judge it yourself.

This passage may help you make a determination...
Deuteronomy 32:39:
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

I need to clarify some of my awkward writing...
an assault or battery on a pregnant woman carries charges against the unborn baby as well as the woman (quoting from my post above)
should have been more clearly written to say:
an assault or battery on a pregnant woman carries charges against the offender for both the pregnant woman and her unborn child.