Who are you worshiping???

[dlamberth]

If all these different religious texts are the Word of God, then they are in conflict with each other. For instance the God of the Bible is a personal God that cares about humanity. This is not the case in Islam. Obviously a different god.

Religious text are not God. A person's relationship with God is something that comes from the Heart. That's where I'd look.

 

[dlamberth]

He is the Savior. The one sent to restore fellowship between humankind and God. He came down from heaven to be a man himself. He left his godhead status to be born of a woman. Father God directed him in his activates. When he went to a town all diseases were healed, blind eyes were opened, the dead were raised to life. He took the capital punishment we deserved and then rose from the dead. And now intercedes for us at the right hand of God the Father. On a personal level, his hand is on my life. I have a personal relationship with the Messiah.

Sounds like a formula. Christ is way more than that.

Because I'm unable to separate God from life and this Creation, I come to it from a completely different direction. Christ to me is the very foundation of Life itSelf. Rather than Christ being an object like every other object, how about Christ being the Life energy between each and every object. Does that sound like consciousness? Does that sound like Love? Of course it does! It's flowing everywhere all of the time.

Christ is inherent in Life itSelf with Christ being the Life Force of everything. In a babies laughter, to a mother's bonding love for her new born child. In a mountain meadow full of spring flowers. In a father's guiding hand teaching his child how to ride a bike. In the breath of life and even in death, there Christ is.

 

[dlamberth]

Did you make that up? Sounds like a pretend reality.

Here's a story as told by Mother Teresa of Calcutta about one of her sisters:
“During the mass,” I said, “you saw that the priest touched the body of Christ with great love and tenderness. When you touch the poor today, you too will be touching the body of Christ. Give them the same love and tenderness.” When they return several hours later, the new sister came up to me, her face shining with joy, “I have been touching the body of Christ of three hours,“ she said. I asked her what she had done, “Just as we arrived, the sister brought in a man covered with maggots. He had been picked up from drain. I have been taking care of him, I have been touching Christ. I know it was him,” she said.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

You are mixing two definitions of flesh here...

Jesus was raised up from death in his physical bodily flesh...

This is not the flesh referred to when addressing the unredeemed nature.

We can agree that Flesh can have many meanings in scripture.

As to the physical body I am with Christ when he says the flesh amounts to nothing and it is the spirit that is life.

1 Corinthians 15:53 "For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If all these different religious texts are the Word of God, then they are in conflict with each other. For instance the God of the Bible is a personal God that cares about humanity. This is not the case in Islam. Obviously a different god.

Or it could be that you have not read and tried to understand the Quran.

I personally see in the Bible that the Message of Islam is the Message of the Two Witnesses of Revelation, that was to last 1260 years, to the year 1260 which is the also the year AD1844 and is foretold in Daniel and Revelation.

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Steven]

No, it's not made up. Do you read the Christian Mystics at all?

If your unable to see Christ around you, just how real IS Christ to you? It sounds some what limited.

Christ is all around me and in me. But it's not something that I "see" with my physical eyes. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it would be a spiritual manifestation.

 

[Saint Steven]

Because I'm unable to separate God from life and this Creation, I come to it from a completely different direction. Christ to me is the very foundation of Life itSelf. Rather than Christ being an object like every other object, how about Christ being the Life energy between each and every object. Does that sound like consciousness? Does that sound like Love? Of course it does! It's flowing everywhere all of the time.

There is something to that. Though he was a human (object) that walked the earth as we do.

Colossians 1:16-18
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

 

[Saint Steven]

Or it could be that you have not read and tried to understand the Quran.

I personally see in the Bible that the Message of Islam is the Message of the Two Witnesses of Revelation, that was to last 1260 years, to the year 1260 which is the also the year AD1844 and is foretold in Daniel and Revelation.

Regards Tony

I did read, The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran: Robert Spencer
Very educational.

 

[dlamberth]

Christ is all around me and in me. But it's not something that I "see" with my physical eyes. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it would be a spiritual manifestation.

Try looking with a spiritual eye...one filled with Love. It's like riding an arrow of Love into the Heart of God.

 

[Saint Steven]

Try looking with a spiritual eye...one filled with Love. It's like riding an arrow of Love into the Heart of God.

I think I do. And I see the hand of God in this fallen world, but I don't mistake the physical realm for the creator. (he is independent from what he made) The spiritual realm is mostly hidden from our sight. It stands directly behind what we can see in the physical realm. From my perspective anyway.

 

[JosephZ]

I did read, The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran: Robert Spencer
Very educational.

Robert Spencer is one of the last people you would want to get an education about Islam. He is one of the most notorious anti-Islamic propagandists in the world.

Here is how an Islamic Scholar from his alma mater describes him:

“Robert Spencer has no academic training in Islamic studies whatsoever; his M.A. degree was in the field of early Christianity... The publications of Spencer belong to the class of Islamophobic extremism that is promoted and supported by right-wing organizations, who are perpetuating a type of bigotry similar to anti-Semitism and racial prejudice. They are to be viewed with great suspicion by anyone who wishes to find reliable and scholarly information on the subject of Islam.” – Carl Ernst, Islamic Scholar at the University of North Carolina

And here is a review of his website:

Jihad Watch is a blog affiliated with the David Horowitz Freedom Center, run by blogger Robert Spencer, it has been described as one of the main homes of the anti-Islamic Counter-jihad movement on the internet. It has been repeatedly criticized by numerous academics who believe that it promotes an Islamophobic worldview and conspiracy theories. (D. Van Zandt 10/21/2016) Jihad Watch - Media Bias/Fact Check

I recommended an online course earlier in the thread which can be found at this link The Gospel and Islam - TVSEMINARY Trinity Video Seminary

In contrast to reading Robert Spencer's book which distorts the teachings of Islam and is intended to deceive its readers, if you take this course you will receive an honest approach to Islam and what Muslims believe from a Christ centered point of view.

 

[Saint Steven]

In contrast to reading Robert Spencer's book which distorts the teachings of Islam and is intended to deceive its readers, if you take this course you will receive an honest approach to Islam and what Muslims believe from a Christ centered point of view.

Since when do Muslims have "a Christ centered point of view"?

Everyone seems to have the right to question and criticize Christianity.
But no one seems to have the right to question Islam without being labeled as "Islamophobic".

Can anyone see a reason to be alarmed about a religion bent on world domination (the final Caliphate) whose most fundamentalist (Quran-following) adherents are eagerly compliant when directed to strap bombs to themselves and detonate when they reach the prescribed public target? Is that what you call "Islamophobic"?

And you have the audacity to paint Robert Spencer as an extremist?
He is of Turkish descent. I think he knows something about Islam.

The MSM is chock full of the pro-Islamic view. Reading Robert Spencer gives me the alternative view and therefore brings some balance. But it seems that is being discouraged in your post.

And before you categorize me as anti-Muslim, you need to know that I encounter Muslims quite often and am always polite and respectful to them, and they are more than happy to return the same treatment to me.

 

[JosephZ]

Since when do Muslims have "a Christ centered point of view"?

They don't, Islam is anti-Christ.

I was talking about the course I recommended as being Christ centered.

I recommended an online course earlier in the thread which can be found at this link The Gospel and Islam - TVSEMINARY Trinity Video Seminary... In contrast to reading Robert Spencer's book which distorts the teachings of Islam and is intended to deceive its readers, if you take this course you will receive an honest approach to Islam and what Muslims believe from a Christ centered point of view.

Can anyone see a reason to be alarmed about a religion bent on world domination (the final Caliphate) whose most fundamentalist (Quran-following) adherents are eagerly compliant when directed to strap bombs to themselves and detonate when they reach the prescribed public target? Is that what you call "Islamophobic"?

The reason you have this misguided view of Islam and Muslims is because your knowledge of Islam comes from people like Robert Spencer and other anti-Islamic propagandists.

The MSM is chock full of the pro-Islamic view. Reading Robert Spencer gives me the alternative view and therefore brings some balance. But it seems that is being discouraged in your post.

Robert Spencer makes a lot of money exploiting non-Muslims in the west and their ignorance of Islam. He thrives on conflict and discord, so he has no motivation to tell the truth about Islam. This is why I suggest people learn from more reputable sources like the course I suggested. Unlike anti-Islamic propagandists like Robert Spencer whose intent it is to create division between Muslims and non-Muslims, I encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ to learn more about Islam and what Muslims believe so they will not fear this religion and those who follow it. I want all Muslims to come to know Christ and this becomes increasingly more difficult when Christians avoid interacting with them out of fear and ignorance. Anti-Islamic propagandists further exploit this fear and ignorance for their own personal gain. They really don't care about you, me, or anyone else, much less the truth.

 

[Saint Steven]

The reason you have this misguided view of Islam and Muslims is because your knowledge of Islam comes from people like Robert Spencer and other anti-Islamic propagandists.

What is misguided about my view? The bombings are in the news. I didn't make that up. Nor was it a fabrication by those you term "anti-Islamic propagandists".

Malmo Sweden invited Muslims into their city with open arms. The place is a war zone now. All of Europe is suffering from their open borders. Don't you have problems in the Philippines as well? Who are you trying to fool here?

And before you categorize me as anti-Muslim, you need to know that I encounter Muslims quite often and am always polite and respectful to them, and they are more than happy to return the same treatment to me.

 

[JosephZ]

What is misguided about my view? The bombings are in the news. I didn't make that up. Nor was it a fabrication by those you term "anti-Islamic propagandists".

Yes, the bombings are real, but when you say Islam is a religion bent on world domination whose most fundamentalist (Quran-following) adherents are eagerly compliant when directed to strap bombs to themselves and detonate when they reach the prescribed public target, you are talking about less than 0.01% of the 1.6+ billion people that claim to be followers of Islam. It is therefore misguided to think that this fewer than 0.01% of "Muslims" are following the Qur'an when better than 99.99% who are reading and learning from the same exact Qur'an don't prescribe to this way of thinking or carry out acts of violence in the name of Islam.

Malmo Sweden invited Muslims into their city with open arms. The place is a war zone now. All of Europe is suffering from their open borders.

What are your sources for this information?

It seems that local authorities in Malmo place the blame on drugs and gang activity rather than Islam. No-go zone? Here's how one of Sweden's roughest areas edged out its drug gangs

Malmö sees lowest crime stats in 17 years: new figures

Embassy: No-go zones 'do not exist in Sweden'

Don't you have problems in the Philippines as well?

With extremists yes, but not with Islam or Muslims. I have witnessed both good and evil done in the name of Islam first hand. I was less than 200 meters away when a bomb detonated by Islamic extremists exploded here in Davao in 2016 killing 15 people and injuring dozens more. More than 200 members of the people group I minister to died follow a siege by extremists in 2013 and thousands more lost their homes. In the Sulu region the islands I visit are often the scene of atrocities carried out by Islamic extremists. It's because of these first hand experiences and many years of studying Islam that I can distinguish between true Islam that better than 99% of Muslims in the world follow and the perverted versions that Islamic extremists follow and anti-Islamic propagandists push.

Who are you trying to fool here?

I would never attempt to fool anyone or intentionally deceive others on a public forum or anywhere else for that matter. As I said my purpose for sharing what I know about Islam and Muslims is so my brothers and sisters in Christ will not fear this religion and those who follow it. How can followers of Christ share their faith with Muslims if they don't interact with them and have already prejudged them based on all of the misinformation being pushed by Islamic extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists? I'm just trying to counter the false narrative the anti-Islamic propagandists are spreading. Their motivations are self serving, divisive, and fuel hatred for others. My motivations are the opposite and are motivated by love for my brothers and sisters in Christ and for all of those who do not know Him yet.

And before you categorize me as anti-Muslim, you need to know that I encounter Muslims quite often and am always polite and respectful to them, and they are more than happy to return the same treatment to me.

And you will find this to be true in every corner of the globe where you encounter Muslims even in parts of the world that are in conflict and/or a high level of Islamic extremist activities. This is evidence that the Islamic extremists and anti-Islamic propagandists are distorting the truth about Islam.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would be more inclined to give your position more credibility if there was a strong voice on the international stage from within Islam condemning the radical violence and extreme Islamic views. Instead we have relative silence and tolerance of Imams preaching hate.

Again the test of truth is what is being done not what is claimed.

 

[JosephZ]

I would be more inclined to give your position more credibility if there was a strong voice on the international stage from within Islam condemning the radical violence and extreme Islamic views. Instead we have relative silence and tolerance of Imams preaching hate.

Again the test of truth is what is being done not what is claimed.

The first link which is always being updated will keep you busy for a very long time reading all of the examples of Muslims and Muslim leaders from around the world condemning Islamic extremism and terrorism.

A collection of all the cases where Muslims have condemned wrongdoings done falsely in the name of Islam.

Here is another good example:

More than 300 Islamic Leaders from Around the World Denounce Extremism

And a few examples of Muslims showing solidarity to Christians

'We protected Christians from al-Shabab'

Muslims raise nearly $100,000 for burned black churches

The Muslims building a Christian church in Pakistan

The imam who saved Christians from Muslim gunmen

Muslims 'Protecting Christians' from ISIS by Lending Them Hijabs in Besieged Philippines Town

Iraqi Muslim family kept sacred Christian books hidden from ISIS

Muslims protect Christians under attack from Isis as they flee Philippines

Thousands of Egyptian Muslims Serve as Human Shields to Protect Coptic Christians | parliamentofreligions.org

Muslims help to rebuild church in Philippines

Muslims, Copts rebuild church destroyed in sectarian clashes in Egypt

Muslims for human chain to protect Christians during Lahore mass

Muslims Volunteer to Work at Christian Soup Kitchen during Holidays so Families can be Together

Mosul’s Muslims rebuild church in solidarity with Christians

Muslims Protect Church in Basilan

Muslims in Jordan Protect Churches on Easter Sunday

Muslim doctors and nurses take over typhoon relief so Christians can spend Christmas with their families

 

[Carl Emerson]

Joseph,

This information doesn't sell newspapers...

No information on Imams being disciplined but the muslim community for preaching hate.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread was to highlight behaviour at the core of Islam and to draw a parallel with rebellious Israel under Aarons leadership.

Regardless of the claims, millions bowing three times a day and kissing a black stone is not exactly indicating a worship of the biblical YHWH - something else is going on spiritually.

Let the readers decide...

 

[cloudyday2]

That leads us to the myth that some believe, and even teach – that the God of Israel and the god of modern Islam, Allah, are one.

What about the possibility that the theologies of Christianity and Islam are BOTH imperfect approximations? So while the approximations are different and in some places contradictory, they are inspired by the same God?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Good try but no...

The scriptures of Islam and Christianity reflect a different spiritual inspiration otherwise they would agree on central issues like the centrality and identity of Jesus.