Infant Baptism

Natsumi Lam

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Well, John the Baptist leapt in the womb of his mother. Just at the sound of Mary's voice, who carried within her Christ.
What does it have to do with any of the questions? Do all babies have the Holy Spirit? How would you know?
 
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timothyu

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Everything in life, especially Christianity, can have a dual purpose . The congregants quite innocently may believe they are consigning their child to God in an act of faith and loyalty. The church however uses it as a means of membership and loyalty to the church itself, and even then gets to control who stays and who can later be expelled. Membership with dues in the church, a servant of God to the other.
 
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timothyu

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Easy, infant baptism was the Christian practice until the Reformation, so 1500 years.

Today some Protestant churches simply substitute for infant baptism adolescent indoctrination into the adult church or even alter calls. Either way is serves the gentile church in the same way infant baptism did. Baptism as a ritual cleansing was kinda lost along with other Jewish influence.
 
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Sabertooth

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Easy, infant baptism was the Christian practice until the Reformation, so 1500 years.
It even continued into the Reformation, as discussed earlier.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi Family,

Can you please explain to me the logic and reasoning behind infant baptism?

~Natsumi Lam~

Jesus Christ instructed His Church to make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). And so, that's what the Church has always done. As Christians we bring our children to Christ to be received into His Body and be born again (John 3:5).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Natsumi Lam

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Jesus Christ instructed His Church to make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). And so, that's what the Church has always done. As Christians we bring our children to Christ to be received into His Body and be born again (John 3:5).

-CryptoLutheran
How do we bring an infant to Christ through baptism if choosing Christ must come down to our own decision and free will?
 
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Sabertooth

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Nope, no proof infant baptism was rejected.
I said that infant baptism was continued [not rejected] into the Reformation (by Luther & the Puritans, as cited earlier in this thread).
 
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ViaCrucis

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How do we bring an infant to Christ through baptism if choosing Christ must come down to our own decision and free will?

It's not about our choosing Christ, it's about the fact that He's chosen us. That is the good news, Christ died for you.

But in order that this great good would not be squandered, the Holy Spirit brings home Christ's work to our hearts by imparting and creating faith through His powerful word, so as it is written, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17). So that all who are born of God belong to God, and this not by works, but by God's grace alone, through faith which is His gift to us (Ephesians 2:8-9), on Christ's account alone.

That is why we can joyfully remember our Baptism, for here is our new birth, our adoption as children of God, as heirs, as joint-heirs with Christ, with the Spirit in us crying forth, "Abba! Father". For all who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

-CryptoLUther
 
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Natsumi Lam

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It's not about our choosing Christ, it's about the fact that He's chosen us. That is the good news, Christ died for you.

But in order that this great good would not be squandered, the Holy Spirit brings home Christ's work to our hearts by imparting and creating faith through His powerful word, so as it is written, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17). So that all who are born of God belong to God, and this not by works, but by God's grace alone, through faith which is His gift to us (Ephesians 2:8-9), on Christ's account alone.

That is why we can joyfully remember our Baptism, for here is our new birth, our adoption as children of God, as heirs, as joint-heirs with Christ, with the Spirit in us crying forth, "Abba! Father". For all who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

-CryptoLUther
What if they were baptized as an infant but dont choose Christ when they are older...are they still saved?
 
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timothyu

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What if they were baptized as an infant but dont choose Christ when they are older...are they still saved?
No more than infant baptism washed away their animal/fleshy nature. They must grow to learn to reject one for the other and understand how man inherently fails the will of God by pursuing the desires of the self serving flesh rather then acting in servitude to all. That must be learned as an option and then man can symbolically wash away the old self serving self in favour of the kingdom of God instead of man .
 
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ViaCrucis

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How can you guage or test that theory against the Word of God for infants?

I don't follow. I mean the Lord explains what He meant in His parable later in the chapter,

"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart; this is what was sown on the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing. But as for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

It doesn't matter what age we are, I mean does it matter if I'm 30 and hear the Gospel or if I'm 80 and hear the Gospel? The Gospel is the Gospel, whether I'm eight days, eight years, eighteen years, or eighty years old.

When we bring our children to the Lord in Baptism, they receive this precious word of God, and we make a pledge--indeed, the whole Church does--to raise them in the faith and the love of Christ. That's the same thing as if an adult is brought to baptism, and hears the word, we pledge as the Body of Christ ourselves to them.

Sometimes people initially receive the word in joy, but do not endure in it and fall away.
Sometimes the thorns and thistles of the world come and choke it out.
Sometimes these things happen, and later--like the Prodigal Son--they return (for Christ is a good stubborn Shepherd who chases after the one lost lamb).
Sometimes people receive the word, and it endures.

Our job isn't to know who is who and what is what--our task as the Church is to do as our Lord said, to preach His Gospel, to baptize, to be His Church. Sometimes people will stumble, sometimes people will fall away, sometimes people will leave for a while and return. Some are workers who came early in the morning, and some are workers who came late in the evening. Some are weak, some are strong, some are short and some are tall.

This Church, comprised of broken, battered, and forgiven fools (1 Corinthians 4:10, 1 Corinthians 1:21) belongs to Jesus and Jesus alone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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and we make a pledge--indeed, the whole Church does--to raise them in the faith and the love of Christ.
That means in the way of the church or the religion. It rarely produces those who love all as self and act in servitude to others as commanded by Jesus, unless of course as sanctioned by the church for the church. Churches and even the religion is notorious a taking sides within the world of man rather than siding with the Kingdom against the world of man.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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I don't follow. I mean the Lord explains what He meant in His parable later in the chapter,

"Hear then the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in the heart; this is what was sown on the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing. But as for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

It doesn't matter what age we are, I mean does it matter if I'm 30 and hear the Gospel or if I'm 80 and hear the Gospel? The Gospel is the Gospel, whether I'm eight days, eight years, eighteen years, or eighty years old.

When we bring our children to the Lord in Baptism, they receive this precious word of God, and we make a pledge--indeed, the whole Church does--to raise them in the faith and the love of Christ. That's the same thing as if an adult is brought to baptism, and hears the word, we pledge as the Body of Christ ourselves to them.

Sometimes people initially receive the word in joy, but do not endure in it and fall away.
Sometimes the thorns and thistles of the world come and choke it out.
Sometimes these things happen, and later--like the Prodigal Son--they return (for Christ is a good stubborn Shepherd who chases after the one lost lamb).
Sometimes people receive the word, and it endures.

Our job isn't to know who is who and what is what--our task as the Church is to do as our Lord said, to preach His Gospel, to baptize, to be His Church. Sometimes people will stumble, sometimes people will fall away, sometimes people will leave for a while and return. Some are workers who came early in the morning, and some are workers who came late in the evening. Some are weak, some are strong, some are short and some are tall.

This Church, comprised of broken, battered, and forgiven fools (1 Corinthians 4:10, 1 Corinthians 1:21) belongs to Jesus and Jesus alone.

-CryptoLutheran
So if i got this right...you are saying that baptism of infants is a proclamation that the child is dedicated..as far as the parents and church are concerned..to God....not that the baptism itself saves the infant?
 
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ViaCrucis

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What if they were baptized as an infant but dont choose Christ when they are older...are they still saved?

You mean if they later in life decide to turn their backs on Christ? If we throw away our faith then we have shipwrecked ourselves (1 Timothy 1:19). So, no, if we reject Jesus we have walked away from our salvation. But we also have the Parables of the Prodigal Son and Good Shepherd, as you recall. We have a very stubborn Savior who loves us. So if someone turns away from the faith, don't lose heart, but pray.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Natsumi Lam

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You mean if they later in life decide to turn their backs on Christ? If we throw away our faith then we have shipwrecked ourselves (1 Timothy 1:19). So, no, if we reject Jesus we have walked away from our salvation. But we also have the Parables of the Prodigal Son and Good Shepherd, as you recall. We have a very stubborn Savior who loves us. So if someone turns away from the faith, don't lose heart, but pray.

-CryptoLutheran
What if they never accepted Christ in the first place but were baptized as an infant?
 
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So if i got this right...you are saying that baptism of infants is a proclamation that the child is dedicated..as far as the parents and church is concerned...not that the baptism itself saves the infant?

Baptism is salvific (1 Peter 3:21), as it is new birth from God (John 3:5, Titus 3:5) and all else which Scripture says of it.

The reason why we devote ourselves, as the Church, to the baptized, is because this Christian life is lived together in Christ, not alone. The baptized has become part of us, and we part of them; because we are--all together--the one new man which is in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:14-16).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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