Vaccines and Abortion - Inconsistent Logic

[KCfromNC]

It is also demonstrably true that the life of a human being is ended by abortion.

Have at it. Be sure to demonstrate an objective empirical measure for when human life begins, and make sure you don't unintentionally make an argument that contraception also ends a human life in the process.

I call this an unfounded assumption. Killing humans, even in fetal form, does harm society.

Speaking of unfounded assumptions...

 

[GodLovesCats]

Lacking the means to care for a child is a good reason to kill the child? I'm no genius, but I could think of much better alternatives!

I am not promoting fetocide here, just saying sometimes a mother's choice is understandable.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Have at it. Be sure to demonstrate an objective empirical measure for when human life begins, and make sure you don't unintentionally make an argument that contraception also ends a human life in the process.

How does contraception end a human life? Its purpose is to prevent fetocide, not cause it.

 

[Tree of Life]

Have at it. Be sure to demonstrate an objective empirical measure for when human life begins, and make sure you don't unintentionally make an argument that contraception also ends a human life in the process.



Speaking of unfounded assumptions...

Whether or not a fetus is a human being is not in dispute. A human life begins the moment that a unique set of human DNA is formed that is distinct from both the father and the mother. This happens at conception.

What is in dispute is what kind of moral status a fetus has and whether or not a fetus is a person. Human being and person are two different concepts.

 

[Tree of Life]

I am not promoting fetocide here, just saying sometimes a mother's choice is understandable.

We may understand the choice, but that does not make it morally permissible.

 

[KCfromNC]

Whether or not a fetus is a human being is not in dispute. A human life begins the moment that a unique set of human DNA is formed that is distinct from both the father and the mother. This happens at conception.

I noticed you forgot to mention the empirical evidence demonstrating this "fact".

 

[KCfromNC]

How does contraception end a human life? Its purpose is to prevent fetocide, not cause it.

If you follow the whole "it's a distinct human life because it has different genetics from the parents" then preventing pregnancy is killing a human life. Same with the arguments that something with a potential to be a baby is basically one anyone.

It all points back to the problems of believing there's some sharp bright line between non-life and life, and non-human being and human being.

 

[GodLovesCats]

We may understand the choice, but that does not make it morally permissible.

Right, there are few reasons for an abortion to be considered moral - and only on a case by case basis.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If you follow the whole "it's a distinct human life because it has different genetics from the parents" then preventing pregnancy is killing a human life. Same with the arguments that something with a potential to be a baby is basically one anyone.

It all points back to the problems of believing there's some sharp bright line between non-life and life, and non-human being and human being.

There is no distinct human life where conception never occurred.

 

[Tree of Life]

I noticed you forgot to mention the empirical evidence demonstrating this "fact".

Yeah. So when a sperm fertilizes an egg, a unique set of human DNA is formed. This can be empirically verified. A living organism with human DNA would be a human being.

 

[Tree of Life]

If you follow the whole "it's a distinct human life because it has different genetics from the parents" then preventing pregnancy is killing a human life. Same with the arguments that something with a potential to be a baby is basically one anyone.

It all points back to the problems of believing there's some sharp bright line between non-life and life, and non-human being and human being.

A sperm has DNA identical to the father. An egg has DNA identical to the mother. A sperm alone is not a unique human life nor is an egg alone. But a fertilized egg is verifiably different in terms of DNA. It has a unique set of DNA which makes it a being that is distinct from both the father and the mother.

 

[Tree of Life]

A sperm is a cell belonging to the father (matching his DNA). An egg is a cell belonging to the mother (matching the DNA). Neither the sperm nor the egg is an organism. They have no ability to multiply on their own.

But a fertilized egg is a unique organism with unique DNA which has the ability to multiply.

 

[KCfromNC]

A sperm has DNA identical to the father. An egg has DNA identical to the mother.

Uh, no. That's not how biology works.

 

[Tree of Life]

Uh, no. That's not how biology works.

Correct me where I've gone wrong. Whose DNA does my sperm have? If I were to leave it at a crime scene, for example, how could it be linked to me?

 

[KCfromNC]

There is no distinct human life where conception never occurred.

Depends on how you define human and life.

 

[KCfromNC]

Correct me where I've gone wrong.

In exactly the part I quoted. Gametes do not have identical DNA to somatic cells.

 

[Tree of Life]

Depends on how you define human and life.

A fetus is an organism that has unique human DNA. This makes it a human being.

 

[Tree of Life]

In exactly the part I quoted. Gametes do not have identical DNA to somatic cells.

Alright that's fine, but that's not relevant to my overall argument. A fertilized egg has a full set of unique human DNA.

 

[KCfromNC]

A fetus is an organism that has unique human DNA. This makes it a human being.

This is what I was talking about earlier - eggs and sperm also have unique human DNA, in that they have a random set of the DNA from other humans.

 

[KCfromNC]

Alright that's fine, but that's not relevant to my overall argument. A fertilized egg has a full set of unique human DNA.

So do cancer cells.