Can Christians eat pigs blood?

[mmksparbud]

I don't see a disagreement between the moon and the sun, just a differing of purpose.

the era of the law and the prophets was a shadow to this age, which is the light.

to continue in the previous era's application communicates that Jesus died for nothing.

To live in the presence of God is not to live in the past--it is the now and the future that God wants us to live in. The things of the ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross--all that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb. Nothing else changed---God doesn't change--Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
He said there would be a new covenant in the OT. The old covenant was the ceremonial laws and they were the shadow of things to come. They pointed forward. What God calls an abomination remains an abomination to Him still. He cleanses only souls through His blood.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2Co_6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Eph_5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[HIM]

Right--wouldn't do the blood---however, I did do everything else before going back to God!

Brown mustard is best on that sandwich, and grilled --just my opinion, though.

OKLh, yah---My Jewish boss came in with a pepperoni pizza one day--I said he wasn't supposed to be easting that---He said It's OK it from a Kosher pig. Of course, I said there was no such animal and he said yes there is---comes from circumcised pigs!!

He really said that? Wow!

 

[HIM]

I don't see a disagreement between the moon and the sun, just a differing of purpose.

the era of the law and the prophets was a shadow to this age, which is the light.

to continue in the previous era's application communicates that Jesus died for nothing.

Jesus said, “ Truly I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law intilll all has been fulfilled.
Heaven and earth have not passed away and all had not been fulfilled.

 

[mmksparbud]

He really said that? Wow!

Yes, He did. I told him I was going to tell his Rabbi. "You don't know who he is!" As he walked away grinning and munching on the pizza.

 

[Soyeong]

I don't see a disagreement between the moon and the sun, just a differing of purpose.

If the Holy Spirit were to leads us to disobey anything that the Father has commanded, then that would go beyond having a different purpose. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. The Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God.

the era of the law and the prophets was a shadow to this age, which is the light.

The OT is full of important foreshadows that teach us about God and His plan of redemption and the light of Christ brings full substance to these foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe in remembrance of Christ. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother keeping Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep it.

to continue in the previous era's application communicates that Jesus died for nothing.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is sinful, which is essentially what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law, but in order to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in him, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's Law (Acts 21:20) while going back to the Lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is what would communicate that Jesus died for nothing.

 

[JIMINZ]

There is only one specific purpose for the Law.

Gal. 3:24,25
24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga.) 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The Law has since fulfilled it's purpose, and we have accepted Christ, the law is of no affect to those who follow it.

Jesus in speaking about the Law said.

Mat 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Therefore we being in Christ, have the Laws written on our hearts,
ie, Fulfilled in us......We follow the Law daily.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

To live in the presence of God is not to live in the past--it is the now and the future that God wants us to live in. The things of the ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross--all that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb. Nothing else changed---God doesn't change--Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
He said there would be a new covenant in the OT. The old covenant was the ceremonial laws and they were the shadow of things to come. They pointed forward. What God calls an abomination remains an abomination to Him still. He cleanses only souls through His blood.

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2Co_6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Eph_5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Yes, looking forward and taking hold of the heavenward prize.

The law won't get you there.

Jesus said, “ Truly I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law intilll all has been fulfilled.
Heaven and earth have not passed away and all had not been fulfilled.

mmhm.

If the Holy Spirit were to leads us to disobey anything that the Father has commanded, then that would go beyond having a different purpose. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. The Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God.



The OT is full of important foreshadows that teach us about God and His plan of redemption and the light of Christ brings full substance to these foreshadows so that we can fully see what God was teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe in remembrance of Christ. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother keeping Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep it.



In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is sinful, which is essentially what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law, but in order to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in him, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's Law (Acts 21:20) while going back to the Lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is what would communicate that Jesus died for nothing.

I find that the law was nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law that exists in it's place is the law of liberty, it's actually harder since it's living ... but the rewards are better too.

I'll just keep reaching up.

Blessings.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, looking forward and taking hold of the heavenward prize.

The law won't get you there.

I agree, but faith without works is dead, so refusing to obey the Law won't get you there either. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is defined as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's Law through faith is what it looks like to be saved from living in disobedience to God's Law. Again, Titus 2:11-14, describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so again this is what our salvation looks like.

In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires, so we are not saved by our obedience, but rather the same grace and faith by which we are saved is expressed as obedience. While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was counted as righteous, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he didn't hesitate to obey God's command to offer Isaac, so he was not saved by his obedience, but rather the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed as obedience to God.

I find that the law was nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law that exists in it's place is the law of liberty, it's actually harder since it's living ... but the rewards are better too.

I'll just keep reaching up.

Blessings.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:160), so there were no laws nailed to the cross. Whenever someone was crucified, the people who write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This serves as a perfect analogy for the list of our transgressions of God's Law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's eternal laws. Again, Titus 2:14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law, but in order to redeem us from all Lawlessness. Instructions for how to walk in God's ways in accordance with God's eternal nature can't be ended without first ending God. You can't follow a better Law without following a better God with better ways and a better nature.

 

[Jipsah]

Peter said: but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Kinda studiously ignoring that part aren't you?

Nope, I'm fine with both. You have to ignore what God explicitly said, and repeated three times for emphasis, I don't.

He never said pork is clean, He never said blood is clean, He never said any unclean meat is now clean.

Arise, Peter, slay and eat.

I am pointing what the bible actually says

Except for the bits that stomp on your doctrine. That's a very common exegetical rule. <Laugh>

This is not about unclean meats being OK. But believe whatever you want.

You say it isn't, God says it is. I'll go with His version.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jipsah]

A The wine represents His pure blood, and can not be represented by fermented wine.

There isn't any other kind of wine, but I think that's another topic altogether.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree, but faith without works is dead, so refusing to obey the Law won't get you there either. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is defined as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's Law through faith is what it looks like to be saved from living in disobedience to God's Law. Again, Titus 2:11-14, describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so again this is what our salvation looks like.

In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires, so we are not saved by our obedience, but rather the same grace and faith by which we are saved is expressed as obedience. While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was counted as righteous, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he didn't hesitate to obey God's command to offer Isaac, so he was not saved by his obedience, but rather the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed as obedience to God.



All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:160), so there were no laws nailed to the cross. Whenever someone was crucified, the people who write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This serves as a perfect analogy for the list of our transgressions of God's Law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's eternal laws. Again, Titus 2:14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law, but in order to redeem us from all Lawlessness. Instructions for how to walk in God's ways in accordance with God's eternal nature can't be ended without first ending God. You can't follow a better Law without following a better God with better ways and a better nature.

The law serves one purpose for a Christian, it's essence crucifies the flesh. However, after we pass from death to life, The Holy Spirit is the teacher.

The law of liberty is beating within our hearts. No longer does one say to another "know the lord" because all know Him, from the greatest to the least. This is the type of covenant that it is. The written code is useful for the carnal mind, but once the born again self is mature enough, it is no longer necessary though it comes back to remembrance.

The written teachings become part of the guidance system instead of a "do this or die" type thing.

There's a heavenward mandate, but the law remains on the ground since it is a shadow.

 

[Jipsah]

Who said I do?? I said if you want to eat and drink what you want--go ahead---just don't try to change the word of God to suite your desires. It says what is says.

We'll leave that to you.

 

[Soyeong]

The law serves one purpose for a Christian, it's essence crucifies the flesh. However, after we pass from death to life, The Holy Spirit is the teacher.

The law of liberty is beating within our hearts. No longer does one say to another "know the lord" because all know Him, from the greatest to the least. This is the type of covenant that it is. The written code is useful for the carnal mind, but once the born again self is mature enough, it is no longer necessary though it comes back to remembrance.

The written teachings become part of the guidance system instead of a "do this or die" type thing.

There's a heavenward mandate, but the law remains on the ground.

There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-12, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalm 103:7, and many others, so the Law was primarily given as instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature and to express His character traits, such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. Jesus expressed these character traits through his actions and what that looked like is complete obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is what it looks like when he is living in us. Pointing out our sin has significance only insofar as it leads us to repent and back to walking in God's ways through faith.

Passing from death to life is about dying to living in sin and rising again to new newness of life in obedience to God's Law.

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow and will not lead us to disobey what He has commanded, but rather in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have carnal minds who refuse to submit to God's Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as caral works that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so the Spirit teaches us to obey the Mosaic Law.

In Psalm 119:45, the Mosaic Law is described as a law of liberty, so that is what it has always been. The written code is not useful for the carnal mind because the carnal mind refuses to submit to it. In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so if we love Jesus, then we will obey what the Father has taught. He notably did not say that once we are mature enough, his teachings are no longer necessary.

 

[mmksparbud]

Nope, I'm fine with both. You have to ignore what God explicitly said, and repeated three times for emphasis, I don't.

Arise, Peter, slay and eat.

Except for the bits that stomp on your doctrine. That's a very common exegetical rule. <Laugh>

You say it isn't, God says it is. I'll go with His version.

[/QUOTE]


Of course, you good with that---it is what you want to believe it says. Peter never did arise and eat.
God did not say it was about food--Peter said what God told him.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Doesn't say God showed him no food is unclean. But, whatever gets you what you want.

 

[mmksparbud]

We'll leave that to you.

Thank you----but you're doing just fine without me.

 

[JIMINZ]

Of course, you good with that---it is what you want to believe it says. Peter never did arise and eat.
God did not say it was about food--Peter said what God told him.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Doesn't say God showed him no food is unclean. But, whatever gets you what you want.

If it was about people, Gentiles in particular why then was the sheet not filled with all kinds of people, you know all the races of the world, but excluding the Jews because we all have heard this was a depiction of unclean or common Gentiles.

Still haven't answered the Kill and Eat statement.

Was he talking to a cannibal?

 

[mmksparbud]

If it was about people, Gentiles in particular why then was the sheet not filled with all kinds of people, you know all the races of the world, but excluding the Jews because we all have heard this was a depiction of unclean or common Gentiles.

Still haven't answered the Kill and Eat statement.

Was he talking to a cannibal?

Because God wasn't talking to a cannibal!! You believe what you want---the scripture says that God showed Peter that no man was unclean---you want to change that to say no food is unclean--go ahead!! I prefer to not change the word of God.

 

[mmksparbud]

Still haven't answered the Kill and Eat statement.

What about it? I already said that it says what it says--arise, kill and eat. 3 times God said it--Peter never did arise and eat.

 

[Jipsah]

Of course, you good with that---it is what you want to believe it says.

Well, that's what it does say, quite explicitly. It's just that your doctrine needs for it to "mean" something else. So you just chop out a couple of lines and you're good to go. I'm content to leave it intact.

Peter never did arise and eat.

Adding to Scripture, are we?

God did not say it was about food

"Arise, Peter, slay and eat". C'mon, let reality intrude at least part of the time.

God shows Peter pictures of lots of animals, and tells Peter to kill and eat them.
Peter says "Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth."

Now if that isn't referring to food, St.Peter obviously thought it did, and God didn't correct him
God says ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’" Said so three times.

Then the Peter found that the three guy from Caesarea were there, and "The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. " Peter went with them. Their dad said an angel had told him to send for Peter. Peter preached to them, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Peter concluded:"So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?"

Amen.

Two different things happening there. God saying, in effect, If I say it's clean, it's clean, be it a hog or a Gentile. Eat a ham sammich if you want to, and preach to Gentiles when I tell you to. I've got it all covered.

You can play "No, that's not what He really meant...", but that's just an attempt to keep the Bible from stepping on your doctrine. People do that a lot, but it's never a good thing.[/quote]

 

[JIMINZ]

Of course, you good with that---it is what you want to believe it says. Peter never did arise and eat.
God did not say it was about food--Peter said what God told him.
Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Doesn't say God showed him no food is unclean. But, whatever gets you what you want.

Because God wasn't talking to a cannibal!! You believe what you want---the scripture says that God showed Peter that no man was unclean---you want to change that to say no food is unclean--go ahead!! I prefer to not change the word of God.

I fully understand you don't want to change the Word of God, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why you don't believe what the Word of God so clearly says.

But you can believe what you want---the scripture says that God showed Peter a sheet full of ANIMALS not MEN (Gentiles). But, whatever gets you what you want.

You keep insisting, just because Peter didn't eat, what God said about and did with the sheet automatically becomes null and void, but what Peter subsequently said at Cornelius' house is all that matters.

I don't think this discussion needs any further comments, your only teaching SDA Doctrine........End of Transmission.