What would a moderate christian standpoint on homosexuality look like?

[FireDragon76]

I don't agree with gay marriage, or gay "shacking up" under any secular law. You are correct in your second paragraph, I agree that "right" is irrelevant but sin is sin. What's next, people should be able to rape or murder? I mean, come on, stand up for something.

It's not about agreeing with other people, it's about the right to be left alone.

Equivocating homosexuality with rape and murder is part of the problem. This is not something Christians did until the Reformation. The traditional Church penances for homosexual acts were far less than for murder, often being similar to the penances for masturbation. Evangelicals in the US should be disturbed by this issue far less than they are; it is simply focusing on something that, at best, is the least important thing about being a Christian.

 

[RDKirk]

I recognize that quote. Popeye.

 

[Romans 8]

It's not about agreeing with other people, it's about the right to be left alone.

Equating homosexuality with rape and murder is part of the problem. This is not something Christians did until the Reformation. The traditional Church penances for homosexual acts were far less than for murder. Evangelicals in the US should be disturbed by this issue far less than they are; it is simply focusing on something that, at best, is the least important thing about being a Christian.

It's about agreeing with scripture. Sin is sin. I don't know why you're apologizing for it.

 

[Ronald]

I have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I want to avoid the extremes if that is possible. So I would not argue against a form of civil partnership for non-christians, but disagree with same sex marriage. I would argue that Christians who wish to have prayer for wholeness including overcoming homosexual desires should be allowed to seek that out and psychotherapy too if they want, but that those who don't want to travel that road celibacy should be encouraged. No one should be forced to go for therapy, either secular or religious. I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships. Homosexuals seeking to live celebate lives should not be refused communion. Forgiveness and grace should be extended when people fail.

Does this avoid extremes of both the liberal and conservative sorts?

Life is about discovery. We learn as we go. God has a plan to enlighten us at a given time. He orchestrates events and people that come into our lives to guide us to that point in time (a divine appointment). Leaders and governments are ordained, each having such laws to protect it's citizens. Most are corrupt and have gotten worse, although compared to other times in history, justice can be found. Laws in the US were based on Biblical principles. what was considered taboo a century ago is now accepted. The US has sunk into a downward spiral of immorality. The only answer is for Jesus to return and rid the planet of evil. Homosexuality is only one sin, a sin against the person or persons involved. But think of all the sins prevalent throughout society.
Wouldn't it be nice to prohibit liars, thieves, murderers, selfish people from the planet? What if God a appointed a present day prophet and told him to tell everyone that at 12:00 midnight Jerusalem time, all reprobates were going to drop dead - wouldn't that be easier? Then we could all get along. But that is not what the Bible says. Judgment is coming ... we've had our time spreading good and evil. The two will soon part.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's about agreeing with scripture. Sin is sin. I don't know why you're apologizing for it.

I'm challenging the notion that homosexuality is the one issue that should produce so much anxiety and bitterness among Christians, when it really should not. Do you see any crusades against masturbation lately? Luther spent far more time ranting about masturbation than he ever did about homosexuality.

The very word "homosexual" did not exist even until the 19th century, before then, it was simply just another sin, one that only some Christians, with very new ideas, severely punished.

 

[Romans 8]

I'm apologizng for the notion that homosexuality is the one issue that produces so much anxiety and bitterness among Christians, when it really should not. Do you see any crusades against masturbation lately?

Actually, Christians have been clear on homosexuality since Jesus Christ taught here on earth. It's the media, movies, and Television that have gone on the warpath against the Word of God.

Christians don't hate homosexuals, we hate sin. The LGBT are welcome in the church but they must repent. Sin is sin whether its homosexuality, stealing, murder, sex outside of marriage, etc. Am I not preaching to the choir here Lutheran?

 

[Albion]

Aside from the fact a liberal stance is not extreme I would hold homosexuals to precisely the same standards as heterosexuals. In the past certainly, and to a lesser extent at the present, homosexuals have been constrained to deny their natural instincts. If they are expressed at all, they have had to be expressed secretly. The sexual instinct is extremely powerful and regardless of sexual orientation it will find a means to be expressed. Let us strive for a society in which that can be expressed in a manner that is healthy and fulfilling for both people in a way that supports the larger needs of a healthy society. This is why I support same sex marriage --- it can only enhance marriage, not threaten it. We heterosexual people are enough of a threat already to the institution of marriage.
What would a rational ethic of sex look like to you? To me it looks like just about any sexual relationship based on love and mutual respect and responsibility between consenting adults is acceptible. I would rule out any sort of violence, coercion, exploitation or anything destructive of a pre-existing relationship.

To summarize..."If it feels good, do it."

No, I don't think that is what the Christian religion is all about.

 

[childeye 2]

I have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I want to avoid the extremes if that is possible. So I would not argue against a form of civil partnership for non-christians, but disagree with same sex marriage. I would argue that Christians who wish to have prayer for wholeness including overcoming homosexual desires should be allowed to seek that out and psychotherapy too if they want, but that those who don't want to travel that road celibacy should be encouraged. No one should be forced to go for therapy, either secular or religious. I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships. Homosexuals seeking to live celebate lives should not be refused communion. Forgiveness and grace should be extended when people fail.

Does this avoid extremes of both the liberal and conservative sorts?

I don't know what a moderate Christian even is. I don't believe the Holy Spirit would testify to such a thing.

As pertains to homosexuality, as per Romans 1:26, I view the condition, along with fornicating and covetousness and others, as a result of God giving people over to the lusts of their flesh as punishment for not esteeming God as God. So according to Romans 2:1 whoever judges such things only condemns their selves because we all do the same things.

So I don't believe it's right in God's eyes to focus on other people's sins.

 

[RDKirk]

To summarize..."If it feels good, do it."

That would be an unsophisticated characterization of Hedonism.

No, I don't think that is what the Christian religion is all about.

Very true.

 

[JackRT]

To summarize..."If it feels good, do it."

I don't believe that either.

 

[FireDragon76]

Actually, Christians have been clear on homosexuality since Jesus Christ taught here on earth. It's the media, movies, and Television that have gone on the warpath against the Word of God.

That's is simply an oversimplification. I've actually studied the issue, read academic papers and histories, and the Church's response has varied a great deal throughout the centuries. Generally, it was just seen as another sexual sin, and it wasn't necessarily even viewed as a civil offense or crime as some Christians do today. It was treated more like a passion or character weakness.

Am I not preaching to the choir here Lutheran?

No you aren't, but that's a discussion for another place altogether.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't believe that either.

Me neither.

 

[JackRT]

I see that the Islamic state of Brunei has implemented a law that requires death by stoning for adultery or homosexual acts. I would advise President Trump against a state visit.

 

[Rubiks]

Christians have interpreted the word "natural" in Romans 1 in multiple ways ever since antiquity. I'll list them:

• All non-procreational sex is forbidden
• All non-male-genital-to-female-genital sex is forbidden
• Anal sex is forbidden
• Only male homosexuality is forbidden
• Homosexual sex is forbidden, but not same-sex romantic relationships
• Homosexuality is forbidden
• Homosexuality, including the orientation (and thus the desires) are sinful/forbidden

 

[hedrick]

Of course everyone thinks they are moderate, and so their own position would be the moderate one. But if you understand moderate not as a specific theological position but how we deal with each other, I'd think that a moderate position would be to accept that there's disagreement among Christians, and be willing to coexist within the Church.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Actually, I've met some women who have made the deliberated, rationalized choice to be gay.

I know what you mean. There are some angry depressed women in sensible shoes who do so for political reasons; my sister is among them

But I know no men who have chosen to be gay.

 

[SkyWriting]

First, love the sinner, not the sin. Do not be deceived, homosexuality is a sin and should never be described in any other way.

No sins can be described for other people. Only for yourself. Sorry about that.
Your claim is baseless.

1 Samuel 16:7 For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Luke 16:15
"You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts.

John 8:15
You judge according to the flesh

Acts 1:24
"Lord, You know everyone's heart.

 

[SkyWriting]

Of course everyone thinks they are moderate, and so their own position would be the moderate one. But if you understand moderate not as a specific theological position but how we deal with each other, I'd think that a moderate position would be to accept that there's disagreement among Christians, and be willing to coexist within the Church.

I'm a scriptural convert radical lefty. No longer a Biblical Ultra-Conservative.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I want to avoid the extremes if that is possible.

- Do do dispute the lifestyle of gay men. (Women too?)
- Reject the arguments of those who do.

◄ Titus 3 ►
Christian Living among Outsiders

1 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed,
2 to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.
3 For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men. 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships.

How about, treat other people, just as you would wish them to treat you?