Time For Switching Sides On Mueller

[USincognito]

And, DEMOCRATS, when they don't get what they want from Mueller, now switch and attack Mueller for not given them the underlying, incriminating information on the president.

Got any examples of this?

 

[Speedwell]

If the Russians interfere with our next presidential election, that would be true. I expect that Trump will say that Obama failed to deal with the interference (if he ever admits to it) and that his actions will help prevent it in 2020.

What actions? At least the military has, without fanfare, upgraded their cybersecurity efforts to the level of a "command" so presumably our military systems are safer. But our electrical distribution grid is still an open door to any kid in an internet cafe in Nigeria. I wonder if Trump has ever considered that Putin the Joker might decide to "help" the Dems next time.

 

[Steve Petersen]

There is the point that the investigation maybe did not find anything to prove anyone guilty of things people are concerned about; but, also, it might not have enough to prove anyone innocent.

Luckily, you are innocent until proven guilty by our laws.

 

[mark46]

Got any examples of this?

just speculating

It's way too early for this to happen

A lot depends on how cooperative Barr and Mueller are in giving supporting data.

 

[Pommer]

The ones who say Trump colluded with the Russians will probably strap their tinfoil hats on tighter.

You don’t think that the House is going to have a couple of questions about is in the report?
It’ll be an interesting summer.

 

[childeye 2]

I expect that Trump will say that Obama failed to deal with the interference (if he ever admits to it).

Trump would not blame Obama openly nor admit Russian interference. He would use innuendo like this: "If there were Russian interference in the election, then why didn't Obama do something about it?"

 

[mark kennedy]

No, it wasn't a waste of time. But, having folks testify for 20 hours and catching them in lies is not what it was about.

The investigation was about investigation Russian interference in our election, so that we can be better prepared to defend against their 2020 efforts. No collusion with the Trump campaign was found, with the possible exception of Stone.

Mueller did find the Trump folks guilty of lots things. After all, they are clearly a bunch of crooks.

HOWEVER, the Democrats need to be careful. Trump may come out looking fine. The Russian interference came on Obama's watch, after warnings from the FBI. Obviously, Trump's company and family may be in trouble is NY, but perhaps not enough to win an election, after NO COLLUSION.

If you remember the special council was appointed in the wake of the firing of James Comey. Trump heard his testimony that he was 'mildly nauseous' at the thought that he might have influenced the outcome of the election. Trump upon hearing that is said to have went 'white hot' over it, Trump fired him over casting aspersions on his election victory. Then Trump had to tweet about tapes, this made Comey think there might be corroborating evidence so he leaked his notes, to make sure his side of the story was out there. Then Trump has an interview with Lou Holt, speaking of the Russia thing and the next day had the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office sharing classified information. Sessions had failed to mention two meetings with the Russian Ambassador in his confirmation hearings, which may have had something to do with the recusal. Flynn had secret conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, which is one of the main reasons the judge at sentencing told him he had better be sure he has done everything to cooperate. Trump was still trying to do the Russia deal in 2016.

So lets' not pretend this was a witch hunt, the notion is absurd. I watched carefully as this unfolded over the last two years and have concluded Trump wasn't involved in the attack on our elections. He had some kind of a heads up that something was going to be leaked concerning emails, he announced it two days before it actually broke, that's not collusion that's someone giving him a heads up.

I neither condemn nor condone his behavior towards Russia, nor can I explain how he could deny Russian interference. The Steel Dossier suggests the Russians have compromising tapes on Trump doing some pretty messed up stuff, I've never seen it have you? Trump's lawyer Cohen puts together a nondisclosure deal with a porn star and a centerfold, they break the deal, the next thing you know he is going to jail. I'm still having trouble figuring out what he did so horribly wrong that now he is a felon and disgraced.

I'm no Trump supporter but I will always give the President of the United States the benefit of every doubt. I grew up despising Nixon but over the years I carefully sifted through the facts and learned, that great politician feel victim to the Hubris of his own ego. I don't think the Mueller report will clear Trump of any wrong doing, but he obviously found nothing in the way of 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. I'm looking forward to a boring summer politically as they ramp up for the 2020 election cycle. I finally feel comfortable with taking a break from political current events, things are finally going to calm down. I'm looking forward to 2020, as I always look forward to Presidential campaigns when there is no sure winner in sight.

I'm so glad this report was finally released, right now I don't even care what is in it. I'm just relieved the possibility of the drama and damage of an impeachment is behind us. A couple of days ago I watched several news stories about the Democrat Presidential candidates, I was bored stiff, that is a big improvement over TV News being Trump TV 27 7. Can I take a break now cause I think I really need one, this has been exhausting.

 

[mark46]

This was not a witch hunt. Interference by Russia has been investigated, and we should be more prepared to avoid this in the future.

COLLUSION
HOWEVER, I would note that part of his mandate was to see if there was any criminal cooperation and/or conspiracy (collusion) by any of Trump team. We don't know about Trump, or Stone. But many others have been judged and it has been found that there is not enough evidence to suggest criminality. That list includes the family, Bannon, Hope, Lewendowski and all the rest. We'll see the details, but this is a huge conclusion.

What has been found is that Trump and his team lied many, many times. They did indeed have conversations with Russians. They may even have known what Russia was going to do. It didn't take a 2 year DOJ investigation to find that out. The media was doing fine. And the Democratic Congress would have been up to that task. AND, more importantly, Mueller took 2 years to find that they did not illegally talk to the Russians.

OBSTRUCTION
There is no question that Trump tried to interfere with the investigation of his campaign, an investigation that found almost everyone to NOT be guilty of collusion. I would note that as much as Trump tired, the investigation was NOT interfered with. [Trump is still guilty of obstruction].

The Congress can decide whether this abuse of power is impeachable. Pelosi has already decided that this is a lousy idea, politically. Obviously, many Republicans believe that it is laudable to try protect his team from collusion charges that weren't true.

ALL THE REST
We can characterize this as we wish. That depends on political persuasion. Yes, his team was a bunch of foreign agents and crooks, and lied about it. Yes, the Democrats and the public should have lots (if not all) of Mueller's findings and backup. However, this is not what special prosecutors are appointed to do. "Witch hunt" implies that there is no there there. Fishing expedition is a better characterization. Mueller found lots of dirt on lots of people, and turned that over to other courts. But, after the fact, looking back, these convictions would not have been enough to have a special prosecutor.

CONCLUSION
Perhaps the special prosecutor was a good idea. Russian interference, denied by Trump, was investigated in excruciating detail. Also, Trump was prevented from interfering with such investigations, and perhaps from further actions similar to the firing of Cuomy.

Also, unless Mueller indicates that Trump was guilty of criminal acts, I don't think that this investigation will hurt Trump politically, although future court actions might hurt him, his business and his family.

If you remember the special council was appointed in the wake of the firing of James Comey. Trump heard his testimony that he was 'mildly nauseous' at the thought that he might have influenced the outcome of the election. Trump upon hearing that is said to have went 'white hot' over it, Trump fired him over casting aspersions on his election victory. Then Trump had to tweet about tapes, this made Comey think there might be corroborating evidence so he leaked his notes, to make sure his side of the story was out there. Then Trump has an interview with Lou Holt, speaking of the Russia thing and the next day had the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office sharing classified information. Sessions had failed to mention two meetings with the Russian Ambassador in his confirmation hearings, which may have had something to do with the recusal. Flynn had secret conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, which is one of the main reasons the judge at sentencing told him he had better be sure he has done everything to cooperate. Trump was still trying to do the Russia deal in 2016.

So lets' not pretend this was a witch hunt, the notion is absurd. I watched carefully as this unfolded over the last two years and have concluded Trump wasn't involved in the attack on our elections. He had some kind of a heads up that something was going to be leaked concerning emails, he announced it two days before it actually broke, that's not collusion that's someone giving him a heads up.

I neither condemn nor condone his behavior towards Russia, nor can I explain how he could deny Russian interference. The Steel Dossier suggests the Russians have compromising tapes on Trump doing some pretty messed up stuff, I've never seen it have you? Trump's lawyer Cohen puts together a nondisclosure deal with a porn star and a centerfold, they break the deal, the next thing you know he is going to jail. I'm still having trouble figuring out what he did so horribly wrong that now he is a felon and disgraced.

I'm no Trump supporter but I will always give the President of the United States the benefit of every doubt. I grew up despising Nixon but over the years I carefully sifted through the facts and learned, that great politician feel victim to the Hubris of his own ego. I don't think the Mueller report will clear Trump of any wrong doing, but he obviously found nothing in the way of 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. I'm looking forward to a boring summer politically as they ramp up for the 2020 election cycle. I finally feel comfortable with taking a break from political current events, things are finally going to calm down. I'm looking forward to 2020, as I always look forward to Presidential campaigns when there is no sure winner in sight.

I'm so glad this report was finally released, right now I don't even care what is in it. I'm just relieved the possibility of the drama and damage of an impeachment is behind us. A couple of days ago I watched several news stories about the Democrat Presidential candidates, I was bored stiff, that is a big improvement over TV News being Trump TV 27 7. Can I take a break now cause I think I really need one, this has been exhausting.

 

[wing2000]

I'm just telling you what the word means.

If you are suggesting that there are actions that should be illegal, but are not, I certainly agree.

In any case, it is Congress who can define the grounds for impeachment. The Constitution simply states "high crimes and misdemeanors". The definition is up to House.

If, for example, Trump was found to be favoring his own interest (hotel project in Moscow) over the interest of the United States, that would be, IMO, grounds for impeachment.

 

[mark46]

If, for example, Trump was found to be favoring his own interest (hotel project in Moscow) over the interest of the United States, that would be, IMO, grounds for impeachment.

There is no question that Trump benefits from having people go to his hotels in preference to others. This may be illegal, and impeachable. However, nothing will happen.

 

[childeye 2]

If, for example, Trump was found to be favoring his own interest (hotel project in Moscow) over the interest of the United States, that would be, IMO, grounds for impeachment.

This means setting foreign policy for personal gain, (Bribery or quid pro quo). The question is was our President compromised by Russia?

 

[mark46]

This means setting foreign policy for personal gain, (Bribery or quid pro quo). The question is was our President compromised by Russia?

These terms mean different things. Trump does a lot for personal gain. It is not clear that there is a quid pro quo. The obvious example, relevant to almost every politician, is large campaign donations either direct or to a PAC. For Trump it is when foreign dignitaries stay at his hotel or go to his gol courses. They may HOPE for favors, but there may be nothing direct.

 

[Speedwell]

This means setting foreign policy for personal gain, (Bribery or quid pro quo). The question is was our President compromised by Russia?

The possibility of "collusion" with Russia can amount to two different things: Collusion over interference with the election, and "collusion" on the President's foreign policy decisions based on pressure brought to bear over his financial shenanigans with Russia. The two need not be related.

 

[childeye 2]

The possibility of "collusion" with Russia can amount to two different things: Collusion over interference with the election, and "collusion" on the President's foreign policy decisions based on pressure brought to bear over his financial shenanigans with Russia. The two need not be related.

If Mueller's mandate was strictly about election interference involving propaganda and DNC hacking, then he may have not pursued other forms of collusion. But to me they are related even because of Cohen's email correspondence with Felix Sater speaking about "making our boy President".

 

[childeye 2]

These terms mean different things. Trump does a lot for personal gain. It is not clear that there is a quid pro quo. The obvious example, relevant to almost every politician, is large campaign donations either direct or to a PAC. For Trump it is when foreign dignitaries stay at his hotel or go to his gol courses. They may HOPE for favors, but there may be nothing direct.

I believe that your referring to what the law calls emoluments? I think I know what you mean by HOPE. It's a way of bribing someone without actually bribing someone. You know "greasing the wheels".

What I'm referencing is the building of a Trump tower in Moscow, hence the quid pro quo is you get the building and I get sanctions removed. Which is not unlike bribery, I'll give you "something of value" if you change this U.S. policy towards Russia.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I believe that your referring to what the law calls emoluments? I think I know what you mean by HOPE. It's a way of bribing someone without actually bribing someone. You know "greasing the wheels".

What I'm referencing is the building of a Trump tower in Moscow, hence the quid pro quo is you get the building and I get sanctions removed. Which is not unlike bribery, I'll give you "something of value" if you change this U.S. policy towards Russia.

After this, therefore because of this? You will need evidence to support the quid pro quo.

 

[childeye 2]

If you remember the special council was appointed in the wake of the firing of James Comey. Trump heard his testimony that he was 'mildly nauseous' at the thought that he might have influenced the outcome of the election. Trump upon hearing that is said to have went 'white hot' over it, Trump fired him over casting aspersions on his election victory. Then Trump had to tweet about tapes, this made Comey think there might be corroborating evidence so he leaked his notes, to make sure his side of the story was out there. Then Trump has an interview with Lou Holt, speaking of the Russia thing and the next day had the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office sharing classified information. Sessions had failed to mention two meetings with the Russian Ambassador in his confirmation hearings, which may have had something to do with the recusal. Flynn had secret conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, which is one of the main reasons the judge at sentencing told him he had better be sure he has done everything to cooperate. Trump was still trying to do the Russia deal in 2016.

So lets' not pretend this was a witch hunt, the notion is absurd. I watched carefully as this unfolded over the last two years and have concluded Trump wasn't involved in the attack on our elections. He had some kind of a heads up that something was going to be leaked concerning emails, he announced it two days before it actually broke, that's not collusion that's someone giving him a heads up.

I neither condemn nor condone his behavior towards Russia, nor can I explain how he could deny Russian interference. The Steel Dossier suggests the Russians have compromising tapes on Trump doing some pretty messed up stuff, I've never seen it have you? Trump's lawyer Cohen puts together a nondisclosure deal with a porn star and a centerfold, they break the deal, the next thing you know he is going to jail. I'm still having trouble figuring out what he did so horribly wrong that now he is a felon and disgraced.

I'm no Trump supporter but I will always give the President of the United States the benefit of every doubt. I grew up despising Nixon but over the years I carefully sifted through the facts and learned, that great politician feel victim to the Hubris of his own ego. I don't think the Mueller report will clear Trump of any wrong doing, but he obviously found nothing in the way of 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. I'm looking forward to a boring summer politically as they ramp up for the 2020 election cycle. I finally feel comfortable with taking a break from political current events, things are finally going to calm down. I'm looking forward to 2020, as I always look forward to Presidential campaigns when there is no sure winner in sight.

I'm so glad this report was finally released, right now I don't even care what is in it. I'm just relieved the possibility of the drama and damage of an impeachment is behind us. A couple of days ago I watched several news stories about the Democrat Presidential candidates, I was bored stiff, that is a big improvement over TV News being Trump TV 27 7. Can I take a break now cause I think I really need one, this has been exhausting.

There's no break from Trump tv. His mind and mouth sits in the Oval office.

 

[childeye 2]

1

 

[childeye 2]

After this, therefore because of this? You will need evidence to support the quid pro quo.

Like what?

 

[Rion]

What are you talking about? The Democrats have been talking about how Mueller has been compromised since he rained on buzzfeed's parade.