Child sacrifice in America dealt with by heaven

[dad]

Wouldn't sin have to be there before they disobeyed?
It's rather difficult to commit a sin of disobedience if
sin wasn't in the picture yet.

I think they committed a disobedience and then sin was able to enter the picture.

Seems like there could have been more direct, immediate
remedies to the sin problem in an all-powerful God's toolbox
than dying a horrible death 2,000 plus years ago that still
hasn't stopped things like abortion from happening to this
day.

They died soon as they ate the fruit, as many people interpret death. That interpretation is that death is separation from God.

 

[dad]

Wow so how many of them curse, get drunk, do drugs, watch pornography, commit adultery, hate their brothers, and have little to no regard for God’s word or His commandments on a regular basis? Do you believe it’s only 10 million? Do you believe 300 million Americans have read the Bible? What I see on a daily basis is that true Christians are extremely rare in America. According to your figures that means the average congregation has about 780 members? I would really love to believe that is true but I just don’t see it in my everyday life. If I had to take a guess just based on people that I know and have met I would say maybe 1 out of 50 are Christian. I think the problem with your numbers is it doesn’t include false professors. Remember Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 7:21-23 my friend.

No. No one says believers have to have anything to do with 'churches'!

As for the 'true christian' thing, well sometimes it seems like one church in town thinks it is the only true one and all the rest are not really true believers. It may be true that 1 in 50 sort of meet your standards of what a true christian should be, but I am not sure that is the standard God uses. Anyhow, God said He would have spared Sodom if only 10 righteous men were found.

 

[dad]

Excellent! Now we are getting somewhere. So. Where is the instruction for women to not have an abortion in the bible?

Anywhere killing is talked about or child sacrifice.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Anywhere killing is talked about or child sacrifice.

And where in the Bible does it equate a fetus with a child?
Is it in Genesis 38, where Judah gives orders for a pregnant woman to be burned to death?
Face it, dad - the Bible doesn't value unborn children. There's nothing in the Bible against abortion. And, in this case, the Bible is not wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No. No one says believers have to have anything to do with 'churches'!

As for the 'true christian' thing, well sometimes it seems like one church in town thinks it is the only true one and all the rest are not really true believers. It may be true that 1 in 50 sort of meet your standards of what a true christian should be, but I am not sure that is the standard God uses. Anyhow, God said He would have spared Sodom if only 10 righteous men were found.

My standards? Is Matthew 7:21-23 talking about professing Christians meeting my standards or God’s standards? I’m simply relaying the message.

 

[Belk]

Anywhere killing is talked about or child sacrifice.

My but didn't we suddenly get very generic. It is almost as if there is no specific prohibition to abortion in the bible.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

If you look only at the dirt you don't see the sky.

So what’s the “sky” part in allowing child molesters to exist instead of creating us so no one does something so terrible?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So what’s the “sky” part in allowing child molesters to exist instead of creating us so no one does something so terrible?

God desires our love and fellowship. Love is a gift given freely of one’s own free will. If God had created us to be obedient without having free will then we would have no choice but to love and obey Him. We would basically be like preprogrammed robots which would be incapable of offering God a genuine gift of love. It is our free will that enables us to sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, I assume He knows what He is doing. He created man with real choice so I guess that is the best thing. God did create man 'not in sin' by the way. Sin came later when they disobeyed and invited death in.

Actually satan committed the first sin when he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven.

 

[Rajni]

I think they committed a disobedience and then sin was able to enter the picture.

How can disobedience be committed without sin being
in the picture first, though? Disobedience would, itself,
be a sin, right? So sin would've had to have already
been there for disobedience to occur.

They died soon as they ate the fruit, as many people interpret death. That interpretation is that death is separation from God.

In whatever way death is interpreted, it evidently hasn't
stopped things like abortion from continuing to occur to this
day.

Again, if God is as upset by abortion as pro-birthers insist
He must be, this wouldn't be happening, and He certainly
wouldn't wait till He was "fed up" thousands of years later
to do something about it.

 

[Dave-W]

Sin is disobeying, not obeying.

Actually, disobeying is transgression. Sin is trying to obey but not succeeding. “Missing the Mark”

 

[Dave-W]

I guess the churches on every corner don't count?

Separation of church and state.

 

[Dave-W]

Of course obeying God is not a sin.

[aside]. I had a pastor once who was really pleased with himself. He came into church one day claiming he figured out how to obey God without sinning.

[/aside]

 

[ToddNotTodd]

God desires our love and fellowship. Love is a gift given freely of one’s own free will. If God had created us to be obedient without having free will then we would have no choice but to love and obey Him. We would basically be like preprogrammed robots which would be incapable of offering God a genuine gift of love. It is our free will that enables us to sin.

I’ve already explained throughout this thread that there’s no violation of free will if we had been created with the ability to choose to do evil, but with no desire to do so.

In fact, this kind of behavior occurs every day in this world. If there’s some particular evil action that you could choose, but never would choose, you’re an example of this. If the god you believe in had created everyone with the same aversion to this evil act that he created you with, then there would be no examples of this evil act. But since this isn’t the case, you can only conclude that this god preferred that this evil act have examples rather than not.

 

[dad]

My standards? Is Matthew 7:21-23 talking about professing Christians meeting my standards or God’s standards? I’m simply relaying the message.

Great. Now balance that with the other 31,173 verses in the bible. Verses like

Joe 2:32 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ro 10:13 -For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ac 2:21 -And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[dad]

And where in the Bible does it equate a fetus with a child?
Is it in Genesis 38, where Judah gives orders for a pregnant woman to be burned to death?
Face it, dad - the Bible doesn't value unborn children. There's nothing in the Bible against abortion. And, in this case, the Bible is not wrong.

I read the chapter, and unless I am missing something you are once again dead wrong. Having a man in anger ask for some silly revenge act to happen is NOT God asking! t only that, but it seems the lady was sent TWO children rather than just the one by God! Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[dad]

My but didn't we suddenly get very generic. It is almost as if there is no specific prohibition to abortion in the bible.

It is almost like you refuse to admit God sends children and punishes those who kill and sacrifice them.

 

[dad]

So what’s the “sky” part in allowing child molesters to exist instead of creating us so no one does something so terrible?

The good part of life and all the good things God is doing and all the people getting saved forever.

 

[dad]

Actually satan committed the first sin when he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven.

Actually Satan was already there in the garden, and it was the disobedience inspired by him that brought sin into the world for man.

 

[dad]

How can disobedience be committed without sin being
in the picture first, though? Disobedience would, itself,
be a sin, right? So sin would've had to have already
been there for disobedience to occur.

If there was no sin yet in the world, the disobedience at the time was what brought sin into the world for man. I would call it a sin as would you. Technically, it was disobedience that resulted in sin I would think. Now we, from the perspective of sin would think of all things in those terms. We know no other reality now.

In whatever way death is interpreted, it evidently hasn't
stopped things like abortion from continuing to occur to this
day.

Murder and death are results of sin. They will not stop until Jesus returns to stop the world so we can get off...then back on to rule.

Again, if God is as upset by abortion as pro-birthers insist
He must be, this wouldn't be happening, and He certainly
wouldn't wait till He was "fed up" thousands of years later
to do something about it.

Maybe take a poll of those knowing they are unsaved and going to hell. Ask them if they would like the curtain call to happen right this moment so that they would go to hell now and have no chance of getting eternal life? People are getting saved all the time.