Is 400,000 illegals a year over the Southern border a crisis?

[FenderTL5]

Why is that it seems the democrats and liberals are the only ones that bring up race and color?

Here's Lee Atwater, American political consultant and strategist for the Republican Party. He was an adviser to US presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and chairman of the Republican National Committee answering your question from the GOP perspective.

 

[Speedwell]

Common sense says yes it is political ideology says no it isn't, go figure.

So what is the political ideology of the Right that they want to avoid considering it as an humanitarian crisis?

 

[mark46]

There is not a lot of oil to steal from Haiti, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

And I guarantee you if we tried to help any of those countries solve their problems we would be accused of meddling in affairs that have nothing to do with us or accused of stealing their oil. The only palatable solution to the "accusers" is we let anybody in our country who wants in no matter the consequences to the country. I wouldn't be afraid to say they would be very happy if we turned into a third world dictatorship or banana republic too.

 

[New Birth]

There is not a lot of oil to steal from Haiti, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

And if there was?

 

[FenderTL5]

And if there was?

Then there would be "unrest" and a lot of US interest like there's has been in Venezuela (linkage).

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Is 400,000 illegals a year over the Southern border a crisis?

It wasn't a crisis ten or so years ago when the figure was 1,800,000.

It was a crisis, but there were few politicians willing to address it. Which is why we needed an outsider. The President wasn’t just blowing hot air when he said “I alone can fix it”. Nobody else would step up to the plate.

 

[Gigimo]

There is not a lot of oil to steal from Haiti, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

That doesn't make any difference it's all about the rhetoric. The accusers know most people don't have much knowledge of those countries and therefore won't know if they're lying or telling the truth, which is the foundation of "popular rhetoric" (ignorance).

 

[Gigimo]

So what is the political ideology of the Right that they want to avoid considering it as an humanitarian crisis?

It's an issue that needs to be addressed in those countries, not here.

Nice try...

 

[childeye 2]

Glad to see someone questioning numbers. The 1 million legal immigrants seem to be a number that ought to be correct as there is a way to verify that one. The 400,000 is an estimate as authoritative as the estimate of twice as many illegal entries from visas as from illegal entries and either estimate could be way off in either direction and may well be subject to confirmation biases by those estimating.

The number of illegal entries at the southern border is a guess. However the number of visa overstays is a documented figure and so are the 1 million immigrants brought in from other countries to grow the economy.

I would suggest that there is actually not all that much need for imported labor to grow the US economy in the 21st century. We certainly do not need to import dependents as we already have a s a sufficiently large group of citizens and non citizens that are dependent upon government for all their needs and a percentage of their wants.

There is no other way to grow an economy in a country where the workforce is already fully employed. Hence America has always grown it's economy through immigration. But there are competing schools of thought as to what end is to be desired. One from a corporate conglomerate perspective, and the other from a government revenue perspective. On the government side, the only reason to grow an economy is to grow a tax base which requires an increase in the population of the workforce. On the corporate side it is to supply a cheap source of labor force.

Your point about citizens and non citizens being dependent upon government is an ideological position that may or not be the reality, depending upon what you are referring to. Your sentiment denotes a negative inference of government dependency which causes me to assume that it would be articulated in some way as government financially supporting people that can work, but will not work. That is not the reality as pertains to a functional government, since the laws are meant to prevent people from gaming the system in such a way.

When referring to Social security Medicare and Medicaid, people have paid into these programs their whole lives which means they are not handouts that people did not work for.

 

[childeye 2]

It was a crisis, but there were few politicians willing to address it. Which is why we needed an outsider. The President wasn’t just blowing hot air when he said “I alone can fix it”. Nobody else would step up to the plate.

No, the President is just blowing hot air when he said "I alone can fix it". Respectfully, there's a big difference between 1,800,000 and 400,000. Clearly the numbers have massively come down before Trump even ran for President.

It not only insults the intelligence because prior administrations have dealt with a much bigger problem before Trump ever did, but Trump cannot even be counted as an outsider since the Trump organization itself uses illegal aliens for labor at it's resorts. Moreover, since America grows it's economy by bringing in 1,000,000 immigrants a year for a corporate labor supply, there's nothing to fix.

 

[Halbhh]

I get it.

There are many other crises that are much, much worse: climate change, drug addiction, gun violence, and affordable health care.

And yes, more people overstay their visas than come over the Southern border. And yes, there used to be lots more illegal crossing at the border.

HOWEVER, isn't this the "whataboutism" that we liberals complain about? These 1,000 people a day is a lot. This is more of a problem now because more are women and children.

The horrible conditions in Central America make this situation likely to get worse rather than better.

CONCLUSION
No, the additional need for wall money isn't a "national emergency". He already has lots to spend, especially when one considers the transfer of confiscated drug money and drug interdiction monies.

But the situation in Central America and our Southern border can certainly be reasonably called a crisis.

We kinda set this all up, ourselves, America set this all up --

This situation:

A real contribution to the of the situation creating the deadly violence in Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador -- where the refugees are fleeing from -- is from things America did over decades, continuing in the 80s also.

Partly by our own actions, which came from a spirit (next song, from that very same time) of greed/power/worldliness that we put into our foreign policy, in how we aided violent repression in those same Central American countries now suffering the longer term outcome of that American violence-as-the-solution. Instead of schools and aid, we sent weapons and helicopters.

Now they are fleeing here, just as in the video above.

Here's the American spirit from that time that started it, and it's interesting this same spirit seems to be woken up today also:

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It not only insults the intelligence because prior administrations have dealt with a much bigger problem before Trump ever did

...rather they failed to deal with it, why is why Trump was necessary.

but Trump cannot even be counted as an outsider since the Trump organization itself uses illegal aliens for labor at it's resorts.

I was referring to the fact that he had never held political office and had no record to run on, but I think you knew that.

Partly by our own actions, which came from a spirit (next song, from that very same time) of greed/power/worldliness that we put into our foreign policy, in how we aided violent repression in those same Central American countries now suffering the longer term outcome of that American violence-as-the-solution. Instead of schools and aid, we sent weapons and helicopters.

Was violent repression less widespread among the Communists? Would their lives had been better if the Communists had prevailed. Looking at Cuba and Venezuela as examples, it doesn't seem so. Might it have less to do with anything the US did and more to do with the way things are done there? Ultimately, the Central Americans are not children, they are adults like we are, and they should be expected to deal with their own issues. They can't reasonable expect to be lifted up by aid from anybody else.

 

[wing2000]

It was a crisis, but there were few politicians willing to address it. Which is why we needed an outsider. The President wasn’t just blowing hot air when he said “I alone can fix it”. Nobody else would step up to the plate.

oh yea, Trump fixed it by hiring illegal immigrants just as many other Americans have done over the last couple of decades. He's batting 000.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So what is the political ideology of the Right that they want to avoid considering it as an humanitarian crisis?

Pretty simple really...

Being poorer than those in the US doesn't mean that you're experiencing a humanitarian crisis.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We kinda set this all up, ourselves, America set this all up --

This situation:

A real contribution to the of the situation creating the deadly violence in Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador -- where the refugees are fleeing from -- is from things America did over decades, continuing in the 80s also.

Partly by our own actions, which came from a spirit (next song, from that very same time) of greed/power/worldliness that we put into our foreign policy, in how we aided violent repression in those same Central American countries now suffering the longer term outcome of that American violence-as-the-solution. Instead of schools and aid, we sent weapons and helicopters.

Now they are fleeing here, just as in the video above.

Here's the American spirit from that time that started it, and it's interesting this same spirit seems to be woken up today also:

No offense, but the US didn't set up criminal gangs in those places. They certainly didn't corrupt the police or officials or prevent them from dealing with criminal gangs.

More importantly though, criminal gangs don't constitute a valid reason for asylum...according to the UN.

 

[childeye 2]

...rather they failed to deal with it, why is why Trump was necessary.

The reality remains that they all had to deal with the problem, regardless of the problem not being solved entirely. To that end, Trump cannot persuade me with a simple assertion that he alone would stop it. In fact his words only revealed that he couldn't even comprehend the complexity of the problem, which is why simple inhumane draconian policies are only making the situation worse.

I was referring to the fact that he had never held political office and had no record to run on, but I think you knew that.

I don't see how not ever having held a public office enables someone to deal with any problem. All politicians began from the same position.

 

[childeye 2]

...rather they failed to deal with it, why is why Trump was necessary.

The reality remains that they all had to deal with the problem regardless of any claim that the problem did not go away. To that end, Trump cannot persuade me with just an assertion that he alone can stop it. In fact, his words only imply that he's too simple minded to even comprehend the complexity of the problem, which is why his simple draconian policies are only making the situation worse resulting in gross acts of inhumanity.

I was referring to the fact that he had never held political office and had no record to run on, but I think you knew that.

Well, that doesn't make any sense to me at all. In the interest of seeing through propaganda we should consider that all politicians begin at some point from the position of not ever having held a political office. And moreover, not ever having held a public office doesn't even count as qualifying a person of being more able to deal with a problem over someone who has held a prior office. It's kind of like suggesting that hiring someone with no experience to do a job is wiser than hiring someone who knows what they're doing. How Trump gets away with convincing people of such nonsense is astounding to me.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't see how not ever having held a public office enables someone to deal with any problem. All politicians began from the same position.

That's a bit like saying that you don't see how hiring an electrician to fix your plumbing is a problem.

It may be true that all politicians had no experience in public office at some point....but that's not a reason to make their first experience the presidency or even Congress.