Is 400,000 illegals a year over the Southern border a crisis?

[New Birth]

Why is that it seems the democrats and liberals are the only ones that bring up race and color?

 

[Ringo84]

In other words, "They [supposedly] call things a crisis and push things through, so Donny is completely justified in making up fake emergencies toooo!"

At least you seem to tacitly admit that there's no "emergency" at the border.
Ringo

 

[New Birth]

Wrong. The largest quantity of illegals enter the country legally and overstay their visas.

where do they come from? We still have a crisis at the border, illegals, drugs, etc.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Wrong. The largest quantity of illegals enter the country legally and overstay their visas.

As illegals entering illegally don't sign some sort of guest register, I doubt that there is an authoritative number that one can cite to back up your assertion. We have several different numbers coming from different sources as to the total number of illegals there are in the US. I take every one of them with a grain of salt except perhaps the number that have overstayed their visas as the government should, if it were run with any sort of efficiency(which is questionable thing to assume), have an accurate count of those. Therefore I would not be willing to say which group outnumbers the other. Nor would it really make a difference in my opinion about border security. I would like to have zero people overstaying their visas and zero people illegally entering the country.

 

[Steve Petersen]

We have a cleaner environment now than we have had in my lifetime and well before my lifetime. No US emergency there. If you live in China or India or one of the other countries that are pouring toxins into the atmosphere there is very little the US can do to stop that. Health care? I thought ACA fixed that? Where is the emergency in health care? What now, let the same guys that did not fix things with ACA make things even worse buy taking health care over completely? I'm not buying any of these emergencies. None of these things is a crisis but I cannot blame Trump for noticing how effective it has been for others as they have pushed through things by saying it is a crisis that needs fixing right now or Armageddon . He is using a different avenue but the excuses for injudiciousness and haste are the same ones.

'Record' fentanyl drug bust made at US-Mexico border

US Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) has announced their largest ever seizure of the synthetic opioid drug fentanyl.

Agents on Saturday found 254 lbs (114kg) of fentanyl, as well as 395 lbs of methamphetamine in a lorry at an official US-Mexico border crossing.

A "false floor" was found in the produce truck, said Michael Humphries, who commands the Nogales checkpoint on the Arizona-Mexico border.

The lorry's Mexican driver has been arrested and charged with drug dealing.


According to Mr Humphries, the cargo of fentanyl had an approximate black market value of $3.5m (£2.6m) and is considered so deadly that even a few salt-sized grains of it could kill a person.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control, fentanyl is the drug most involved in fatal overdoses around the country, accounting for around 18,000 deaths in 2016.

'Record' drug bust at US-Mexico border

 

[Speedwell]

where do they come from?

All over the world.

We still have a crisis at the border, illegals, drugs, etc.

None of which The Wall will do very much to stop. For example, drug smugglers are now using drones to bring drugs across the border. How will The Wall stop them?

 

[Ringo84]

Not only that, but most of the drugs being smuggled over the border come from port of entry:
Trump Says Border Wall Will Stop Drugs. Here’s What a DEA Intel Report Says.

That's another lie about how supposedly necessary "steel slats" would be.
Ringo

 

[grasping the after wind]

In other words, "They [supposedly] call things a crisis and push things through, so Donny is completely justified in making up fake emergencies toooo!"

At least you seem to tacitly admit that there's no "emergency" at the border.
Ringo

Where did I imply that two wrongs make a right? I did nothing tacitly I came right out and posted it. There is a problem at the border not an emergency. The problem can be solved, unlike climate change which is neither an emergency nor a solvable problem. Heath Care and health insure=ce are is too expensive that's a solvable problem but not an emergency though I surely do not think government has the answer to that problem. I find anyone on any side of the political spectrum calling something an emergency or a crisis( never let a crisis go to waste) so they can get their way or attempt to shame people into compliance with their political agenda to be an underhanded and malevolent tactic.

 

[Speedwell]

I would like to have zero people overstaying their visas and zero people illegally entering the country.

Good for you; so would I. Let's build The Wall. That will surely solve the problem, right?

But I don't agree. My solution would be,

1. Increased border enforcement by better manning, more electronics and even some physical barriers where appropriate.
2. Expanded efforts to round up and deport those overstaying their visas.
3. Serious enforcement of workplace employment law.

This solution is regarded by the Right as the "Open borders where anybody can just walk right in whenever they want" position because it doesn't include The Wall and they have no interest in implementing it.

 

[Ringo84]

Where did I imply that two wrongs make a right? I did nothing tacitly I came right out and posted it. There is a problem at the border not an emergency. The problem can be solved, unlike climate change which is neither an emergency nor a solvable problem. Heath Care and health insure=ce are is too expensive that's a solvable problem but not an emergency though I surely do not think government has the answer to that problem. I find anyone on any side of the political spectrum calling something an emergency or a crisis( never let a crisis go to waste) so they can get their way or attempt to shame people into compliance with their political agenda to be an underhanded and malevolent tactic.

That's very dishonest framing, as nobody has declared a national emergency on either health care or climate change. Politicians have been alarmed at these problems and said that they're a crisis (and they are), but they haven't ginned up a fake emergency - which you yourself called an "underhanded and malevolent trick" - like Donny.
Ringo

 

[New Birth]

Good for you; so would I. Let's build The Wall. That will surely solve the problem, right?

But I don't agree. My solution would be,

1. Increased border enforcement by better manning, more electronics and even some physical barriers where appropriate.
2. Expanded efforts to round up and deport those overstaying their visas.
3. Serious enforcement of workplace employment law.

This solution is regarded by the Right as the "Open borders where anybody can just walk right in whenever they want" position because it doesn't include The Wall and they have no interest in implementing it.

Isn't this basically the stance of the right? Im not sure that anyone but me wants a wall all the way across the border. Sounds like you agree with Trump on this.

 

[childeye 2]

I get it.

There are many other crises that are much, much worse: climate change, drug addiction, gun violence, and affordable health care.

And yes, more people overstay their visas than come over the Southern border. And yes, there used to be lots more illegal crossing at the border.

HOWEVER, isn't this the "whataboutism" that we liberals complain about? These 1,000 people a day is a lot. This is more of a problem now because more are women and children.

The horrible conditions in Central America make this situation likely to get worse rather than better.

CONCLUSION
No, the additional need for wall money isn't a "national emergency". He already has lots to spend, especially when one considers the transfer of confiscated drug money and drug interdiction monies.

But the situation in Central America and our Southern border can certainly be reasonably called a crisis.

Where are you getting the number 400,000? As I understand it, no one actually knows how many illegal entries are successful at the southern border. The number you provide is most likely a guess, and most likely doesn't even subtract from that total those who are apprehended at the border and deported.

Moreover, when contemplating the efficacy of a wall being able to stop the flow of illegal immigration into America, it would be counter productive to not include those who enter legally and simply overstay their visas. Estimates indicate that their are twice as many illegal entries that occur using this method.

Finally, America brings in 1 million immigrants into America every year to supply the necessary source of labor to grow the economy. This information alone should give us cause to wonder what is the real purpose for declaring a National emergency?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Not only that, but most of the drugs being smuggled over the border come from port of entry:
Trump Says Border Wall Will Stop Drugs. Here’s What a DEA Intel Report Says.

That's another lie about how supposedly necessary "steel slats" would be.
Ringo

Does the DEA have an authoritative count on how many drugs were smuggled into the country either at or outside of ports of entry? If you think they do can you explain how that can be done? Do the smugglers end them a copy of an invoice after they have made their delivery? I constantly see people quoting numbers that I do not see how anyone can consider them as anything more than a guess. There is simply no way to compile those numbers. I would expect there was a good set of numbers on how many were caught smuggling drugs in but how can anyone take seriously a number purporting to tell you how many drugs got in that the government did not catch attempting to get in? They might as well tell us they know how many people entered the country without their knowledge or exactly what sound the falling tree in the forest made when they were not there to hear it. . How do they say they were able to count what entered the country that they did not know entered the country ?

 

[Ringo84]

Does the DEA have an authoritative count on how many drugs were smuggled into the country either at or outside of ports of entry? If you think they do can you explain how that can be done? Do the smugglers end them a copy of an invoice after they have made their delivery? I constantly see people quoting numbers that I do not see how anyone can consider them as anything more than a guess. There is simply no way to compile those numbers. I would expect there was a good set of numbers on how many were caught smuggling drugs in but how can anyone take seriously a number purporting to tell you how many drugs got in that the government did not catch attempting to get in? They might as well tell us they know how many people entered the country without their knowledge or exactly what sound the falling tree in the forest made when they were not there to hear it. . How do they say they were able to count what entered the country that they did not know entered the country ?

So...instead of actually arguing about the numbers, which don't support your position, you're instead arguing that professionals don't actually know what they're talking about because you think you know better?
Ringo

 

[Gigimo]

But the situation in Central America and our Southern border can certainly be reasonably called a crisis.

And I guarantee you if we tried to help any of those countries solve their problems we would be accused of meddling in affairs that have nothing to do with us or accused of stealing their oil. The only palatable solution to the "accusers" is we let anybody in our country who wants in no matter the consequences to the country. I wouldn't be afraid to say they would be very happy if we turned into a third world dictatorship or banana republic too.

 

[FenderTL5]

Are Democrats willing to say out loud that we should accept 400,000 refugees into the US as asylum seekers, and millions more should the come? Have they proposed this in legislation before the House? Have they proposed any increase in the numbers of asylum seekers that the US should accept?

In the House? That's a yes and no.
Yes a Senate Bill was sent to the House but it was never brought to the floor. It was the GOP that killed it in the House. No, the democrats have not brought the legislation forward in the House.
The bi-partisan Senate Bill in 2013 took on the issues of Border Security and Immigration. It was sponsored by Chuck Schumer and Marco Rubio, it passed in the Senate with 68 votes.
imho, it should be revived. I know the senior Senator, a Republican, from my state has said the same.
wikipedia link
The actual bill in the Congressional Record.

 

[Gigimo]

So, the millions of Central Americans who want to come for asylum in the US aren't a humanitarian crisis.

WOW!

Common sense says yes it is political ideology says no it isn't, go figure.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Where are you getting the number 400,000? As I understand it, no one actually knows how many illegal entries are successful at the southern border. The number you provide is most likely a guess, and most likely doesn't even subtract from that total those who are apprehended at the border and deported.

Moreover, when contemplating the efficacy of a wall being able to stop the flow of illegal immigration into America, it would be counter productive to not include those who enter legally and simply overstay their visas. Estimates indicate that their are twice as many illegal entries that occur using this method.

Finally, America brings in 1 million immigrants into America every year to supply the necessary source of labor to grow the economy. This information alone should give us cause to wonder what is the real purpose for declaring a National emergency?

Glad to see someone questioning numbers. The 1 million legal immigrants seem to be a number that ought to be correct as there is a way to verify that one. The 400,000 is an estimate as authoritative as the estimate of twice as many illegal entries from visas as from illegal entries and either estimate could be way off in either direction and may well be subject to confirmation biases by those estimating. I would suggest that there is actually not all that much need for imported labor to grow the US economy in the 21st century. We certainly do not need to import dependents as we already have a s a sufficiently large group of citizens and non citizens that are dependent upon government for all their needs and a percentage of their wants.

 

[Speedwell]

Isn't this basically the stance of the right? Im not sure that anyone but me wants a wall all the way across the border. Sounds like you agree with Trump on this.

I don't know what Trump's position is. I doubt he does, either; it changes from minute to minute. But too many of his fanbase wants The Wall and nothing else that I wouldn't trust him not to build it once he has the money.

My take on it is that it started as a negotiating strategy, "We'll propose this cockamamie monstrosity of a wall and maybe the threat of it will get us more out of the Democrats in the way of conventional border security than they would have given us otherwise." But it caught on big time with his base and now he's stuck with it.

 

[JackRT]

Is 400,000 illegals a year over the Southern border a crisis?

It wasn't a crisis ten or so years ago when the figure was 1,800,000.