Must we endure in the faith by continuously believing and repenting?

[BCsenior]

Timmy,
Who exactly are you talking to?

 

[Foxfyre]

Someone practicing righteousness is proving that they are righteous and not earning it. When someone repents and believes on Jesus, they get that new innate nature. Then they start living out their lives to conform to God's image.

The Bible calls it the fruit. The fruit of a righteous man is righteous living. Righteous living in itself does not save us. However if the righteous man decides to start deliberately sinning and never repents, he is in trouble. I honestly do not understand salvation as in if it can be lost or not but I do know the Bible says that someone can be delivered from the defilement of the world and then go back into it and his soul is worse off than when he did not know the truth. Sounds clearly like someone who was severed from the vine and cut off from God.

Ezekiel 33
12“And you, son of man, say to your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him when he transgresses, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall by it when he turns from his wickedness, and the righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. 13Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die.

I agree that those of us who love God do so by living, thinking, speaking, acting righteously. And yes, that keeps the demons at bay and makes us God's vessels for the Holy Spirit to keep evil from overtaking the Earth. But I don't believe for a minute that I am sinless, and I consider myself God's work in progress that is nowhere close to being the person I want to be, He knows I can be. I have to ask forgiveness for my sins every single day, usually on multiple occasions.

 

[timothyu]

Timmy,
Who exactly are you talking to?

Does it matter? It addresses the topic.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, I guess you're at cross purposes with 1 John 1:9.
John's not talking about Jesus.

I think he is. But we can certainly agree to disagree on that.

 

[Invalidusername]

No, but if you say that you have no sin, you are a liar and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). As a Christian, you should walk after the Spirit, but not every Christian walks after the Spirit. The Corinthians certainly didn’t as described by Paul in his first letter to them. Yet they were still called saints. No, sin should be avoided, but since it is impossible to cease from sin, it is why we have the Savior to pay for all our sins.

“Jesus paid it all,
all to him I owe.
Sin had left a crimson stain,
he washed it white as snow.”

If you say that you can lose your salvation, you are also saying that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ wasn’t good enough to pay for all your sins, that somehow his blood is blemished and unworthy. And that is blasphemy.

I rest in Christ, knowing that from him I have received for sin the double cure. Can you truly say the same?

There is nobody without sin but yet a Christian should not be trapped in the patterns of the world and conforming to the world. There is a difference between sinning and messing up versus willfully sinning against the light.

I am attempting to trust in Christ to pay for my sins but I do know the severe consequences of sin that I am experiencing now. My conscience is no longer sensitive anymore and my heart has become hardened. This is a state that I thought was impossible for me to enter but alas it happened to me. It feels as if I am beyond recovery and this is why I warn others. The BIBLE ITSELF says that there is a point that you can reach which counts as "trampling upon the cross" and "profaning the covenant".

 

[BCsenior]

I have to ask forgiveness for my sins every single day, usually on multiple occasions.

Then, you are on the right (er, correct) path!

 

[Invalidusername]

I agree that those of us who love God do so by living, thinking, speaking, acting righteously. And yes, that keeps the demons at bay and makes us God's vessels for the Holy Spirit to keep evil from overtaking the Earth. But I don't believe for a minute that I am sinless, and I consider myself God's work in progress that is nowhere close to being the person I want to be, He knows I can be. I have to ask forgiveness for my sins every single day, usually on multiple occasions.

Then you are living righteously. A righteous man is someone who recognizes his sin and depends upon God's provision for his sin. Once a man starts sinning to the point where he no longer recognizes his sin, is he still righteous?

 

[timothyu]

I have to ask forgiveness for my sins every single day, usually on multiple occasions.

By doing so shows you understand the traditional ways of man are wrong for the Kingdom even though your animal nature continually tries to maintain control.

 

[BCsenior]

1 John 1:9 ... John's not talking about Jesus.

I think he is. But we can certainly agree to disagree on that.

The whole book of 1 John was written to believers,
and he is always talking about you, anyone, our, etc.

 

[Call me Nic]

Nikki,

Don’t call me that.

And I take the warnings of the entire Bible seriously, but that doesn’t make me think that I can somehow be worthy of salvation of my own merits. God is not one that seeks to condemn others considering he makes salvation easy, because he did all the work. All a person has to do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

He desires all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4-6).

Of course not all will be saved. But he makes salvation easy as drinking a glass of water or eating bread.

 

[BCsenior]

All a person has to do to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm sorry, but you have serious problems.
You are one of those here who do not believe in
the many dire warnings about losing salvation.
Some people just cannot handle them emotionally.

 

[timothyu]

but that doesn’t make me think that I can somehow be worthy of salvation of my own merits.

Do you reject the will of man?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
This statement means that you don't believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life to, then. Why is that? John 10:28 is clear: those who receive eternal life shall never perish.

It clearly says that if you believe in the Son, you will have life.

Please read the verse again. It doesn't say HOW to be given eternal life. That comes from other verses, such as John 3:16, 5:24 and 6:47.

The point of John 10:28 is that those given eternal life shall never perish.

How do you read it?

If someone at one point repented and believed and then recanted that belief, how can this verse apply to him now?

Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

It seems you are not believing what Jesus said.

btw, consider these 2 verses:

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Both verses are clear about who will be condemned; those who have NOT believed.

These verses cannot apply to believers who lose their faith, for they HAVE believed.

Also there are plenty of verses that say, "And by this you have been saved IF you continue in it."

Please share several of these "plenty of verses", since I've never read any verses that say what you are claiming.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I hate to tell you but after my repentance and belief, I slowly fell back into sin again. Now you are in the dilemma of "You were never truly saved." or "You were saved but lost it."

Why am I in this so-called dilemma? WHEN you believed, you possessed eternal life, based on:

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

These verses clearly indicate that eternal life is possessed WHEN one believes.

Given that, and what Jesus said in Johbn 10:28, once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

So I would NEVER claim you were never truly saved or saved but lost it. That's what Calvinists or Arminians would say. I'm neither.

Consider Hebrews 12:15.

"See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;"

So? Where is any mention of losing salvation. Believers can become defiled. Sin defiles.

That's why we were given 1 John 1:9. Through confession, we are forgiven and cleansed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Check out a Greek lexicon for the word for "obey" here. It means to believe. Just as John 3:36 says those who "obey not" means "believe not".

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said Invalid: ↑
Please share any verses that clearly state this.

Invalid, I warn you in the strongest of terms
... do not waste your time!

Yes, it would be a waste of time, since there aren't any. Which is why you've consistently ignored my posts to you.

If you could defend your view, you'd have overwhelmed me with clear verses. But, in fact, I've overwhelmed you with clear verses about eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have been saying that ...
It's God's choice who will be chosen & called to be holy.

Scripture tells us directly who God chooses to save: believers.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

NO free will for man to choose himself for salvation.

OK, please provide any verse that says that God chooses who will believe, or that God is the One who causes a person to believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If I was truly puffed up then I would not think that I am an apostate. Christians cannot continue on sinning. It's not permitted.

It's certainly not without serious consequences. Here's a few verses on the subject of God's painful discipline:

Heb 12:11 - No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Psa 38:1-3
1 LORD, do not rebuke me in your anger or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Your arrows have pierced me, and your hand has come down on me.
3 Because of your wrath there is no health in my body; there is no soundness in my bones because of my sin.

1 Cor 5:5 - hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. Sound like a mere hand slap?

1 Tim 1:19 - Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme. Picnic?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry you feel that way.
I'm just posting NT warning verses re: losing salvation!

There aren't any.

If there were, they would render the words of Jesus in John 10:28 a lie!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nikki,

It appears that ...
you do not take the dire warnings in the NT seriously
... and are just trusting in the precious blood of Jesus!

But, we have our part to play in our salvation ...
other than merely believing, having faith, and trusting.

Such blasphemy against the work of Christ!

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Notice what Paul said to Timothy:

1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

It's blasphemous to add ANYTHING to what Christ did on the cross on our behalf.

All we can do is receive the free gift through faith in His own work.

Believe and receive is God's plan.

Your plan is of the flesh.