Must we endure in the faith by continuously believing and repenting?

[timothyu]

Salvation:

Not one mention of the Kingdom although that is what they all speak of.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm sorry, but you have serious problems.
You are one of those here who do not believe in
the many dire warnings about losing salvation.

You keep saying this but have never shown any evidence from clear verses.

Some people just cannot handle them emotionally.

Or, more likely, it's those like you who can't handle the truth that salvation is permanent and cannot be lost.

I would venture a guess that it's driven by an emotional reaction that someone who offends you so much might actually enter heaven.

All you've done is set yourself and your own criteria up for entrance into heaven. There is no grace in your system. Only works.

Rom 9:32 - Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Your system has stumbled over the stumbling stone.

 

[Invalidusername]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
This statement means that you don't believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life to, then. Why is that? John 10:28 is clear: those who receive eternal life shall never perish.

Please read the verse again. It doesn't say HOW to be given eternal life. That comes from other verses, such as John 3:16, 5:24 and 6:47.

The point of John 10:28 is that those given eternal life shall never perish.

How do you read it?


Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

It seems you are not believing what Jesus said.

btw, consider these 2 verses:

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Both verses are clear about who will be condemned; those who have NOT believed.

These verses cannot apply to believers who lose their faith, for they HAVE believed.


Please share several of these "plenty of verses", since I've never read any verses that say what you are claiming.

Thanks.

The problem is you have inferred meanings from those verses that have not been intended.

1 Corinthians 15

1Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

 

[timothyu]

There is no grace in your system.

Grace gave us the Kingdom of Heaven which didn't exist before, It didn't give us a back stage pass. We were left with a new choice and as the parable of the sower shows we may not all take root or remain fruitful if we do. This is especially exemplified in those who returned to the ways of the world of man seeking to combine Kingdom with State, an ideological impossibility.

 

[St_Worm2]

IMO, you are claiming that anyone who backslides cannot possibly be born-again!

Hi again BCsenior, if I gave you that impression I apologize as it was not intentional. Here's the post of mine that you are referring to, edited somewhat.

...true Christians (not CINO's ) .. John 17:3 .. are horrified by even the thought of sinning again .. and repent/seek forgiveness for it whenever they do .. 1 John 1:8-2:2. As was once said: It is not the absence of sin but the grieving over it which distinguishes the child of God from empty professors. ~Arthur W. Pink ... those who are born again .. seek forgiveness and repent whenever they do fall prey to their temptations and sin.

Is it safe for me to assume that your definition of "backsliding" by a BAC means 1. they have sinned and 2. they lose their salvation because they do? Or do you mean something different by it?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - one last question (if you don't mind), if someone loses their salvation, do you believe that they can get it back again?

 

[Foxfyre]

Then you are living righteously. A righteous man is someone who recognizes his sin and depends upon God's provision for his sin. Once a man starts sinning to the point where he no longer recognizes his sin, is he still righteous?

That one is above my pay grade. I judge actions as to whether they are righteous or not, but not people. I am quite certain that each one of us has sinned and probably frequently sins in ways that we do not recognize as sin. At least via my definition of sin, i.e. that which harms ourselves and/or others however unintended it might be. What we think, the choices we make, our actions/demeanor/thoughts/words/expression/tone of voice etc. etc. etc. all will either be good or they will be sin.

I think it is why we have the passage: "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." Mark 10:18.

I believe it is our cumulative sin, the sin of all people of all time, that has spoiled God's perfect Creation, that has caused the physical/mental defects and issues, all the illness, all the cruelty and hatred and the most horrible attributes of humankind. Some was done purposefully. And some was done without thinking, without knowing. And I believe for every 'poison' humankind has created, God has the anecdote that will be discovered or revealed. My signature line is not just a 'feel good' verse. I believe it with all my heart.

 

[Foxfyre]

The whole book of 1 John was written to believers,
and he is always talking about you, anyone, our, etc.

I still believe that Jesus meant it when he said "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

 

[Foxfyre]

By doing so shows you understand the traditional ways of man are wrong for the Kingdom even though your animal nature continually tries to maintain control.

Yes. I think we benefit a LOT when we search ourselves and allow God to remake us into who He wants us to be. I don't know if anybody actually gets all the way there. I certainly hope that I am not the best I will ever be in that regard.

 

[timothyu]

I believe it is our cumulative sin, the sin of all people of all time, that has spoiled God's perfect Creation, that has caused the physical/mental defects and issues, all the illness, all the cruelty and hatred and the most horrible attributes of humankind.

There is only one master sin.. putting our will before the will of God. Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom addressed just that. World of man vs Kingdom of God. Our will is the cause of all problems simply because it is self serving, puts gain at the expense of others in the forefront, and justifies the deeds by redefining good and evil to suit the self serving deed.

 

[timothyu]

I don't know if anybody actually gets all the way there.

Not likely but it is the allegiance to the Kingdom of God over the world man has made in our image that counts.

 

[St_Worm2]

John 6:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. But, the BAC can cast himself out.

I don't believe that he/she can, or that which Jesus teaches us in John 6 and elsewhere cannot be true.

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
ALL that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.​

--David

 

[BCsenior]

Is it safe for me to assume that your definition of "backsliding" by a BAC means 1. they have sinned and 2. they lose their salvation because they do? Or do you mean something different by it?
p.s. - one last question (if you don't mind), if someone loses their salvation, do you believe that they can get it back again?

I've always thought a backslider is a believer
who has gone back into sin, and (this is tricky)
is no longer "in Christ".
So, this person is no longer in a saving relationship
with the Lord Jesus Christ.

But then, guess what ... Presto magnifico! ...
... the person can get it all back again
through sincere repentance!
WHY and HOW?
Because God is full of mercy and grace,
and is longsuffering, slow to wrath, etc.

But, how many times can we grieve God like this?
How many times can we return through repentance?
Only He knows ... probably varies for each person.

 

[timothyu]

I've always thought a backslider is a believer
who has gone back into sin, and (this is tricky)
is no longer "in Christ".
So, this person is no longer in a saving relationship
with the Lord Jesus Christ.
But then, guess what ... Presto magnifico! ...
... the person can get it all back again through
sincere repentance! WHY and HOW?
Because God is full of mercy and grace,
and is longsuffering, slow to wrath, etc.

Does that apply to a church that rejoined the world of man even though the Kingdom is of an opposing ideology?

 

[BCsenior]

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)

ALL that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of ALL that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.​

My best commentary says Jesus is talking about
all true Christians (perhaps the true elect) ...
... not the ones who choose to habitually sin,
who fall away from the faith, be estranged from Christ,
fall from grace, draw back to perdition, etc.

So, are these the only ones Father God draws
towards Jesus, and the rest come another way?

IMO, a few isolated verses in the NT do
not offset the many dire warnings in the NT!​

 

[BCsenior]

Re: post #132 ...
Does that apply to a church that rejoined the world
of man even though the Kingdom is of an opposing
ideology?

IMO, yes.

 

[timothyu]

IMO, yes.

I wonder when that will happen.

 

[BCsenior]

I wonder when that will happen.

Surely, it's a matter of each individual member.
Sounds like most have been deceived into not
following the Kingdom principles of salvation!

 

[timothyu]

Surely, it's a matter of each individual member.
Sounds like most have been deceived into not
following Kingdom principles of salvation!

Agreed.. individuals within finding the Kingdom for themselves in the same way the Jews found it while part of the Temple crowd.

 

[Roidecoeur78]

And I take the warnings of the entire Bible seriously, but that doesn’t make me think that I can somehow be worthy of salvation of my own merits.

A person will never make their self worthy of grace, but they can still risk becoming unworthy through disobedience that leads to defilement. And that only after having been cleansed by the second birth, because prior to the second birth all are defiled and dead in their sins. A saving faith is one that leads to obedience to Jesus' example of speaking truth to power and of living for the benefit of others, and, if need be, dying for them. The easy out of just believing in something is no ticket anywhere, even the demons believe James 2:19.

After receiving forgiveness:
"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself" 1 Corinthians 3:17

"if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins." Hebrews 10:26

"tell Gentiles everywhere what God has done for them, so that they will believe and obey him" Romans 1:5

The difficult and narrow road is believing Him enough to say and do as He said and did, even if it causes your death. So, if you don't have to worry about losing salvation, it could be that you have yet to even receive it.

 

[BCsenior]

We struck pay dirt with post #139!
We all need to pay attention!
The man knows of what he speaketh!