Tree of Life
Hide The Pain
Then, OSAS?
I believe in what I call the Preservation of the Saints.
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Then, OSAS?
When I was in a Reformed seminary, that same question was asked of our two theology professors. One said that we were still totally depraved, but the other one said that we weren't. Total depravity is really pervasive depravity, but that messes up the TULIP! Anyway, my sense is that pervasive depravity has to do with the presence of sin in our lives after God gives us the new birth. Paul in Romans 6 says that sin no longer enslaves us. In that way, we are no longer pervasively sinful. However, we still have sin within us that we need to fight along with Satan and the tempting world.How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?
Sinless perfection is never implied, because it is impossible to achieve. If we could, there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross for us. Conversion involves an exchange of our sinfulness for Christ's righteousness. In spite of the weakness of our flesh, God sees us as righteous. But this does not mean that we live as we please. One of the fruits of genuine conversion is that we hate the sin in ourselves, have no reliance on the flesh, and do what we can to keep our bodies under subjection. If we do fail in the flesh (and that is where our sinfulness is), we can use 1 John 1:9 to receive immediate forgiveness and cleansing.So if they are righteous, they don't sin anymore? What happens if they sin?
Walking in the Spirit is to hate sin and love holiness. It also involves fighting the battle between the flesh and the Spirit, being clothed with the armour of God, and using the sword of the Spirit and all-prayer as our offensive weapons against sin. We might lose some of the battles, but we have already won the war. Walking in the flesh is not making any effort to fight the battle against sin, and to willingly walk in the deeds of the flesh (listed in Galatians 5). A person who lays down his weapons, takes off the armour and lives in the flesh, shows that genuine conversion to Christ has not happened in the first place.Does a Christian go back and forth between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh? IOW, do they go back and forth between being saved, and unsaved?
A believer is capable of living in the flesh. All believers have a choice whether to live according to the Spirit or to live according to the flesh. Unbelievers have no such choice as they are only capable of living according to the flesh since they are unregenerated. While it is true that some who claim to be believers, were never believers in the first place, it does not logically follow that all who claim to be believers were never believers. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs which of course is not true. The Apostle Paul in Romans 8:13 warned the brethren living in Rome that if they are living according to the flesh (continual sin), they will die (spiritual death).Walking in the Spirit is to hate sin and love holiness. It also involves fighting the battle between the flesh and the Spirit, being clothed with the armour of God, and using the sword of the Spirit and all-prayer as our offensive weapons against sin. We might lose some of the battles, but we have already won the war. Walking in the flesh is not making any effort to fight the battle against sin, and to willingly walk in the deeds of the flesh (listed in Galatians 5). A person who lays down his weapons, takes off the armour and lives in the flesh, shows that genuine conversion to Christ has not happened in the first place.
So, is that OSAS?
It could be. But different people mean different things by these terms. What does OSAS mean to you?
Once one so much as claims he has faith, he is saved and regardless of what he does, or does not do thereafter, he cannot lose that salvation.
The Bible doesn't teach that.Once one so much as claims he has faith, he is saved and regardless of what he does, or does not do thereafter, he cannot lose that salvation.
Let me ask you a question. Would you choose to live in the flesh? If not, why?A believer is capable of living in the flesh. All believers have a choice whether to live according to the Spirit or to live according to the flesh. Unbelievers have no such choice as they are only capable of living according to the flesh since they are unregenerated. While it is true that some who claim to be believers, were never believers in the first place, it does not logically follow that all who claim to be believers were never believers. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs which of course is not true. The Apostle Paul in Romans 8:13 warned the brethren living in Rome that if they are living according to the flesh (continual sin), they will die (spiritual death).
I'm an Arminian and I hold total depravity. Believe it or not, Jacob Arminius and even John Wesley taught that man have a corrupted will, they cannot choose God on their own unless He uses prevenient grace to draw sinners, giving them a chance to choose to life their trust in Jesus (John 6:44).How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?
According to Calvinism, every person is born depraved and is condemned by God soley at the pleasure of God until they accept Christ. After they accept Christ they are then pronounced righteous.
How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?
The Bible doesn't teach that.
How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?
Because if I choose to live in the flesh (habitual sin), I will spiritually die as Rom 8:13 warns against. I don't want to experience spiritual death and separation from God, therefore my desire is to live according to the Spirit. I am by no stretch of the imagination perfect/sinless but I strive toward living a sanctified life which we all should be doing.Let me ask you a question. Would you choose to live in the flesh? If not, why?
Total depravity, is tied at the hip with unconditional election. It is difficult concept to grasp, but, once a person receives God's grace, then through faith he is declared righteous for Christ sake, faith itself is a gift of God. Our nature remains corrupt as long as we are in this body, we will continue to sin until we are called home. The good news is that when God looks at our record of sin it's through the blood of Christ. Martin Luther described our sinful nature as the "old man" on our back, so we repent and ask forgiveness daily, trusting in God's grace, mercy, and his promise of salvation. Personally, I do not believe we fall from God's grace, our sin may hamper our relationship with God, but our soul belongs to him, and we will see him in our flesh, and he will say "well done good and faithful servant".
The Bible seems to indicate we are declared righteous by God prior to actually receiving God's grace, because God knows and chooses beforehand.