Calvinism - Total Depravity Question

[1stcenturylady]

How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?

 

[HTacianas]

How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?

According to Calvinism, every person is born depraved and is condemned by God soley at the pleasure of God until they accept Christ. After they accept Christ they are then pronounced righteous.

 

[1stcenturylady]

According to Calvinism, every person is born depraved and is condemned by God soley at the pleasure of God until they accept Christ. After they accept Christ they are then pronounced righteous.

So if they are righteous, they don't sin anymore? What happens if they sin?

 

[Tree of Life]

How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?

Total Depravity is a position on the effects of the fall. Fallen man is corrupt in every part of his being - including his thinking, desiring, and moral abilities. He cannot therefore freely choose God and is in need of God to regenerate his heart before he can respond to God.

A person who has been regenerated by the Spirit is in a restored condition. They are still fallen creatures who live in a fallen world, but they have been given a new heart. Regenerate people still have the remnants of the fallen nature within them but they are no longer identified with it and they are distinct from it. It is a reality that is passing away. Yet the struggle against "the flesh" is a lifelong struggle and Christians will battle every day to avoid sin, recognize latent sin, and repent on a deeper and deeper level.

How God views a person who is in Christ is another question. Because we are justified in Christ, our status before God is "righteous". Even though we are imperfect and sinful in our being, God views us through the lens of Christ and accepts us as perfectly righteous in his sight and treats us as such. This is the good news of the gospel.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?

No, not still totally depraved, but still in the natural body of flesh. The Christian is paradoxically both sinner and Saint (ref. Romans chapter 7). In ourselves we are sinners, in Christ we are Saints. Walking in the Spirit we are Saints, walking in the flesh we are sinners.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Walking in the Spirit we are Saints, walking in the flesh we are sinners.

Does a Christian go back and forth between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh? IOW, do they go back and forth between being saved, and unsaved?

 

[JAYPT]

So if they are righteous, they don't sin anymore? What happens if they sin?

A little thing called grace.

 

[Tree of Life]

Does a Christian go back and forth between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh? IOW, do they go back and forth between being saved, and unsaved?

Christians are at all times influenced by both the Spirit and the flesh. These two things are at war with one another in the Christian. At times Christians do yield to the desires of the flesh and need to repent. But this does not mean that they become unsaved. As Proverbs teaches: "for the righteous falls seven times and rises again". (Proverbs 24:16).

 

[JAYPT]

Even though we are imperfect and sinful in our being, God views us through the lens of Christ and accepts us as perfectly righteous in his sight and treats us as such. This is the good news of the gospel.

God is not looking at us with "Jesus glasses", we are completely righteous, hidden in Him. When we as a people group start actually believes this, they typically act this way.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A little thing called grace.

How does grace affect us sinning?

 

[Tree of Life]

God is not looking at us with "Jesus glasses", we are completely righteous, hidden in Him. When we as a people group start actually believes this, they typically act this way.

You do not believe that we are clothed in Christ?

 

[JAYPT]

Christians are at all times influenced by both the Spirit and the flesh. These two things are at war with one another in the Christian.

This is called the power of sin, it is not you, it is attached to you. Romans says so.

 

[Tree of Life]

This is called the power of sin, it is not you, it is attached to you. Romans says so.

I agree that we are no longer identified with the sin that indwells us. But sin still indwells us until we are glorified and we must war against it.

 

[JAYPT]

How does grace affect us sinning?

Titus says that we become obedient because of grace. Titus 2:11

 

[JAYPT]

I agree that we are no longer identified with the sin that indwells us. But sin still indwells us until we are glorified and we must war against it.

Just a little thought, if we become Jesus focused and quit trying to be sin managers, how much more relaxed would we be?

 

[Jonaitis]

How does total depravity play out in a Christian's life. Is a Christian STILL totally depraved? Does God consider a Christian a sinner or a saint?

Well, total depravity refers to the effects of the fall in the nature of man, that every part is corrupted through sin. But more than that, we cannot do anything truly pleasing to God. We are thoroughly biased against, and disabled and antagonistic toward all that is good, and are naturally inclined toward all that is evil. Now, this isn't to say that we are as evil as we can be, obviously God restrain men and women from the greatest extent of their depravity in sin in varying degrees. However, we are void of all that is good and any desire of that good in the true sense. We have our sinful bias somewhere in everything we do, with every motive. Thus, we cannot come to Christ willingly. By nature, we hate God and want nothing to do with him. We are in bondage to sin, and we are dead in sin and dead to the things of God.

Regarding your question, when God converts a sinner by his grace from out of their natural state of sin, he regenerates them and enlightens their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God. He removes that heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh, renews their will by his divine power and turns them to good. Yes, there is remaining sin in that person after he is converted, but they are no longer in bondage, they are made a new creation. They begin to desire what is good, what is right. They are new in the spirit, even though the flesh is still dead in sin. The struggle with our regenerated soul and the indwelling corruption remaining in the flesh is the long-life battle of the Christian. After the resurrection, we will have a body that is renewed, glorified, and alive to what is good and right. Until then, the remaining corruption still strives with our sanctifying minds.

God considers that Christian a saint that still sins.

 

[Hazelelponi]

All saved Christians are saints.

There is at no point or place in the Bible where a baptised believer in Christ is called a sinner.

Followers of Christ who sin, are literally saints who committed a sin.

 

[Tree of Life]

Just a little thought, if we become Jesus focused and quit trying to be sin managers, how much more relaxed would we be?

We should totally be focused on Jesus rather than on trying to manage our sin. We overcome the sin that still indwells us by focusing on our identity in Christ.

 

[Tree of Life]

There is at no point or place in the Bible where a baptised believer in Christ is called a sinner.

Paul calls himself the chief of sinners. "Sinner" is a perfectly good label to apply to a Christian.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Paul calls himself the chief of sinners. "Sinner" is a perfectly good label to apply to a Christian.

He was speaking of himself in the pre-saved/needing salvation tense, not the current after-saved tense...

1 Timothy 1:15-16

"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life."