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Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Saint Steven

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No, it is not wrong for a person to keep the Sabbath (Holy) and not go to church on Sunday if ones God is the God of Israel. If ones God is the Sun as with Rome, then such a one would keep the Venerable Day of the Sun as does Rome but this day has not been set apart and deemed holy by God so it cannot be kept holy; the Pope cannot transfer holy from Saturday to Sunday; likewise Mohammad cannot transfer holy from Saturday to Friday.
Right.
The name of the day of the week does not determine which deity is being worshiped.
Otherwise Saturn would be worshiped on Saturday. There is no day named after our God.
 
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BobRyan

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Nothing wrong, unless you weren't a slave in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 5:15
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Isaiah 56:6-8 says gentiles are specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping.

Ex 20:8-11 comes 40 years before Deut 5 and reminds us that because God is the creator of mankind - mankind is to keep the Sabbath. A detail Christ reminds us of in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath made for mankind".

No wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Which side of Deut.5 are we on now?

The good side.

Deut 5 is not Moses declaring war against Sinai if you read Deut 5 "details".

It starts off by telling the reader to pay attention and obey the law given at Sinai.

Deut 5
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire,

instead of arguing against God - in Deut 5 - Moses is for God.

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Moses is not rechiselling stone in Deut 5 -- he rather says that it is what was actually on stone that is not changed. In fact the Ten are kept inside the ark and Deut - outside the ark.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

Are you observing the new moon? (Isaiah 66:23)

Is it one of the TEN?
Are you observing the Sabbath?
Does Christ say "the new moon was made for mankind" Mark 2:27 or
"the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27.

There is a New Earth future as in Isaiah 66:23 where the New Moon observance is also placed along side the Sabbath - which is not an argument for denying today the Sabbath "made for mankind".

You are misreading Isaiah 56.
Gentiles are not allowed in the Temple.

In the temple there was a court called "the court of the gentiles" -- details matter.

I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”

yep -- that is after Deut 5.
 
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BobRyan

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There you go. You said it.
What does that say about any other day?

It says that the Bible fact that no other day of the week was "sanctified" and "made holy" by God (Ex 20:11, Gen 2:1-3) remains a fact no matter our "feelings" about such a Bible fact.
 
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BobRyan

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Right.
The name of the day of the week does not determine which deity is being worshiped.
Otherwise Saturn would be worshiped on Saturday. There is no day named after our God.


In the Bible one is called "week day 1" and the other is called "The Sabbath"
 
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1213

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...do those who keep Saturday worship the same God as those who keep Sunday or Friday? What identifies the God one worships?

Saturday is set in the Bible as Shabbat day by God. Sunday is not. That is why those who keep Saturday, seem to be more faithful to Bible God. But I think it is possible that people in both groups have the same God.
 
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BobRyan

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Do you have regular fellowship with your Christian brothers and sisters? In my view, that's more important than which day you prefer to worship on and whether you keep Shabbat as a special day.

well there is "opinion" (and thank you for yours) ... and then there is "scripture"..

In scripture "the saints keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
 
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Saint Steven

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It says that the Bible fact that no other day of the week was "sanctified" and "made holy" by God (Ex 20:11, Gen 2:1-3) remains a fact no matter our "feelings" about such a Bible fact.
What are you claiming about Sunday, then?
 
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Saint Steven

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In the Bible one is called "week day 1" and the other is called "The Sabbath"
Right.
Like I said, none of the days of the week is named after our God.

Wait...
are you claiming that the first day of the week is a holy day?
 
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Of the Kingdom

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well there is "opinion" (and thank you for yours) ... and then there is "scripture"..

In scripture "the saints keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Yes, I'm well aware there are scripture references on both "sides" if you choose to say this only or that only, but I thought the OP was more interested from the point of view of someone who wasn't convinced there was only one legitimate answer.

Unfortunately the thread quickly degraded into an us vs them debate, so there seems to be little hope now that the two views will be calmly compared with the focus of Kingdom and fellowship first.
 
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BobRyan

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Do you have regular fellowship with your Christian brothers and sisters? In my view, that's more important than which day you prefer to worship on and whether you keep Shabbat as a special day.

well there is "opinion" (and thank you for yours) ... and then there is "scripture"..

In scripture "the saints keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
In scripture "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
In scripture "this IS the Love of God that we keep His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
In NT scripture sin is defined as "transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
In NT scripture the New Covenant has the "LAW written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:6-11.
In NT scripture our faith "establishes the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

In NT scripture Christ speaks of those who try to edit and tweak the Commandment of God - like this Mark 7:6-13




Yes, I'm well aware there are scripture references on both "sides" if you choose to say this only or that only, but I thought the OP was more interested from the point of view of someone who wasn't convinced there was only one legitimate answer.

The title of the thread " Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?
"

In any case - I can be "accused" of sticking with scripture on this topic - if that is what you wish. I say you have free will and can choose such a course if you wish.

Unfortunately the thread quickly degraded into an us vs them debate, so there seems to be little hope now that the two views will be calmly compared with the focus of Kingdom and fellowship first.

As I said - I am going to stay with scripture on this topic - but I freely admit that everyone has free will.
 
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BobRyan

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Right.
The name of the day of the week does not determine which deity is being worshiped.
Otherwise Saturn would be worshiped on Saturday. There is no day named after our God.


In the Bible one is called "week day 1" and the other is called "The Sabbath"

(Jesus was resurrected on week day 1 - according to the bible )
And also according to the Bible "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (yhwh)" Ex 2010

Right.
Like I said, none of the days of the week is named after our God.

Wait...
are you claiming that the first day of the week is a holy day?

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Does the Bible call week day 1 a holy day?
 
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sparow

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Right.
The name of the day of the week does not determine which deity is being worshiped.
Otherwise Saturn would be worshiped on Saturday. There is no day named after our God.

This is not a useful argument; worship of God is a 24/7 event. Resting on and keeping a day holy is to do with obedience and respect and participating in a way of life. I believe it is possible to worship Satan on Saturday but you couldn't keep his day holy.

If you were to meet God and Satan walking down the road how would you tell them a part; you probably couldn't. If you belonged to God you would probably know but it is only necessary that God knows who you are. It is important that we keep the commandments even when we know Satan has told us to do so, and I believe this has happened; so it is important that Jesus is our teacher and not men as advocates.
 
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sparow

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Saturday is set in the Bible as Shabbat day by God. Sunday is not. That is why those who keep Saturday, seem to be more faithful to Bible God. But I think it is possible that people in both groups have the same God.


There is a danger, faith requires we know who we worship; The fourth commandment is the only way I know of Identifying the God of Israel; Sunday identifies God's like Nimrod, and Dianna; Sunday identifies Babylon and the Beasts.

So many have died for their obedience to God; in the beginning under Rome and later during the Inquisitions (still under Rome) many saved their lives by abandoning the fourth commandment.

Matthew 16:25 (NKJV)
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
 
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BobRyan

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This is not a useful argument; worship of God is a 24/7 event.

Consider this - God says that true worship in its highest form happens when you are not in the middle of taking a Calculus test or doing your taxes, so He forbids secular activity on His own appointed day of worship. Not that we do not find moments to set aside and devote to worship on other days -- but it is nothing like the Sabbath
 
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sparow

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Consider this - God says that true worship in its highest form happens when you are not in the middle of taking a Calculus test or doing your taxes, so He forbids secular activity on His own appointed day of worship. Not that we do not find moments to set aside and devote to worship on other days -- but it is nothing like the Sabbath

God has detailed certain behaviour concerning the Sabbath but has God called that behaviour worship; is worship holding some one or thing or high esteem or is worship bowing the knee and pointing certain body components is a particular direction?
 
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Saint Steven

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I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Does the Bible call week day 1 a holy day?
Yes and no. (you'll find that illusive, I suppose)

Yes, means that we find the statement in Genesis.

No, means it doesn't mean what you claim it means. Here's why.

If it means what you claim it means, then we would see evidence of Sabbath-keeping before Exodus chapter sixteen. Is that what we see? Nope.
 
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