Is it possible to walk without willfully sinning? It better be....

[CleanSoul]

Unless I'm sadly mistaken, in the entire history of the world, from the Creation, until death and hell are cast into the bottomless pit, there has been one and only One person to have ever lived "sin-free", "sinless".

What about Enoch, Elijah, and of course, Mary?

 

[BobRyan]

What about Enoch, Elijah, and of course, Mary?

All of them sinners -- all of them needed the Gospel

BTW you left out Stephen "full of grace". In fact "full of grace AND power"

 

[DeaconDean]

I specifically said ‘willful sin’ in the title. The Word is clear on that one.

Ah hum...

In Acts 21, there are two specific verse where was told by individuals, speaking through the Spirit, that he was NOT to go to Jerusalem.

Paul went anyway. That is willful disobedience/sin.

God told Peter to arise, slay and eat. Peter flat out said no. That is willful disobedience/sin.

Here again, your whole premise falls apart when compared to two individuals who seen, walked, and talked with Jesus, and could not achieve that mark.

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

What about Enoch, Elijah, and of course, Mary?

All we know about Enoch is very limited from scripture.

Show me from scripture, where Enoch was sinless.

Elijah was should have been fearless. Instead, fearing for his life, flees to the mountain, sets himself in a cave to "hide" himself, and pits himself thinking he was the only "prophet" left.

Where in scripture does it say Mary was sinless either before or after her conception?

All we know for sure is she was highly favored.

Now if Catholicism takes that to mean "sinless", well your free to believe that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[CleanSoul]

All we know about Enoch is very limited from scripture.

Show me from scripture, where Enoch was sinless.

Sirach 44:16, and 44:19 show he was taken from the earth, and in Hebrews 11:5 it says, "BY faith Enoch was taken up, so that he should not see death... Before he was taken up, he was attested to have pleased God." (emphasis mine)

If he was a horrible sinner, would he have gone directly to heaven?

Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11 says, "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

First Maccabees 2:58, "Elijah because of great zeal for the law was taken up into heaven." (emphasis mine)

You get a complete Bible, you get a more complete picture.

Regarding Mary, if we use the traditional translation of Luke 1:28 instead of the more modern one found in your Bible, instead of, "highly favored daughter," it translates in Greek to kecharitomene, or, "full of grace", which speaks to a quality or characteristic about her.

She was kept free from sin her whole life, including original sin, by being full of sanctifying grace. In her special case, she was redeemed by the grace of Christ in the anticipation of a sinful nature. So before she went down the path most people do when are born into a sinful world, she already had a special grace preventing her from sinning, she was full of grace.

 

[CleanSoul]

All of them sinners -- all of them needed the Gospel

BTW you left out Stephen "full of grace". In fact "full of grace AND power"

The difference being the past tense in speaking about an event when Stephen was full of grace and power while doing great things. It is different when referring to Mary who is full of grace to the present time.

 

[CleanSoul]

66% of the New Testament was written by one individual. The question arises then, is it, or would it be sin to disobey God?

You are asking if it would be a sin to disobey God?

after the point of salvation,

The point of salvation being when? And, how do you know if the apostles ever sinned after Jesus died?

That was a mark that not even Paul or Peter could achieve!

Thankfully, we were given the sacrament of confession by God, through Jesus, to the apostles, and on and on to our current priests who have the authority to absolve us of our sins when acting in persona Christi, or, in the person of Christ. (See John 20:20-23). In the denominations, there is no unbroken successive line all the way back to the time of Jesus. Any "ordained minister" is only ordained by man, which is why you only have two sacraments, which are being messed up as well.

The first Pope, lets not forget him. It is recorded that he also disobeyed God.

He is a man who had free will just like anyone else.

 

[Gideons300]

You are asking if it would be a sin to disobey God?


The point of salvation being when? And, how do you know if the apostles ever sinned after Jesus died?



Thankfully, we were given the sacrament of confession by God, through Jesus, to the apostles, and on and on to our current priests who have the authority to absolve us of our sins when acting in persona Christi, or, in the person of Christ. (See John 20:20-23). In the denominations, there is no unbroken successive line all the way back to the time of Jesus. Any "ordained minister" is only ordained by man, which is why you only have two sacraments, which are being messed up as well.



He is a man who had free will just like anyone else.

Guys, if you would be so kind, this has sort of deviated from the topic in the OP. It is not a debate about how others in the past may or may not have walked sinlessly. It is for those who are not walking with victory over sin who want it more than their next breath.

And the path to that victory? Abiding in Him. How do we know this? Because we are told that if we abide in Him we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. WILL NOT.

Thus, the real question is not whether we can or whether we cannot. If we can figure out how to abide in Him, God Himself will cause us to walk as overcomers. So, how are we told we abide in Him? By faith!

This is not our beginning faith that reached out to believe God sent Jesus to die for our sins. True Christians have believed that from day one and still have been overcome by sin, by self, by the world and the devil. So what is it?

It is faith, our agreeing with our God, that we..... the old us..... is dead. It is faith that likewise, we have been made new creatures, possessing new natures, and that God, now no longer with us but IN US, will actually cause us to walk in obedience.

This is why God is the potter in our sanctification, and we the clay. When we have tried to be the potter, one of two results happen. We fail miserably...OR.... we make a fair show in the flesh, and the sins we commit are “refined ones”, which leave us as the Pharisees, pretty on the outside, but dead men’s bones on the inside.

In these coming days, God is again awakening His people to the truth of who they are. These are those spoken of by John the Revelatory, who became overcomers by combining the blood of the Lamb with the words of OUR TESTIMONY that the old us is truly dead. Not dying. DEAD. Sin that has wrapped its tentacles around us for our entire lives is about to receive its death blow.

His people, wrapped up in religious efforts that can set no one free, are about to put on their brand new natures by faith and when they do, everything will change. Religion will be swallowed up by righteousness.... His in us!

Our minds will be renewed. Our victory will be real and powerful. And praise God, the love of Jesus will not only flow down on us but also through us as we finally understand what it is to be one with one another in the exact same waywe are one with Him. Glory!

Are you ready? God is. He has spoken that His eyes search out over the whole earth, seeking those on whose behalf He can shown Himself strong. Are you tired of your failures? Battling a self nature that refuses to climb down off the throne. Your deliverer is come and make no mistake, He will accomplish what He has purposed for us.... victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. Complete and utter, wonderfully glorious victory.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[CleanSoul]

Guys, if you would be so kind, this has sort of deviated from the topic in the OP. It is not a debate about how others in the past may or may not have walked sinlessly. It is for those who are not walking with victory over sin who want it more than their next breath.

Sorry, you have a good point. I pretty much shut out any possibility of a valid argument from the people I was answering, anyway. And I need to understand this is a discussion and not a debate.

God is the potter in our sanctification, and we the clay.

Absolutely, and if we die in a rough state because of our own free will, we will be stuck in that state for eternity.

In these coming days, God is again awakening His people to the truth of who they are. These are those spoken of by John the Revelatory, who became overcomers by combining the blood of the Lamb with the words of OUR TESTIMONY that the old us is truly dead. Not dying. DEAD. Sin that has wrapped its tentacles around us for our entire lives is about to receive its death blow.

You are referring to the Easter season? I wish more people understood the relevance of how Jesus is the Lamb of God.

One parallel that is beautiful to me is this: in the Old Testament, the lamb for the slaughter could not have any broken bones. Then, in the New Testament, Jesus on the cross did not have broken bones. (John 19:36 and Exodus 12).

I'm glad beyond measure that you are a changed man, I too have had my struggles, although possibly not as difficult as yours. We both changed through different means but both by responding to the grace of God.

I still say that without confession, every week for a year, I would still be the same person I was. Now, I do not suffer from the near addiction I was fostering before my, "awakening", and I no longer do those things. I would be more likely to walk around in public picking my nose and consuming the fruits.

What I don't get is this: I still could choose to do those sins again, and I think you agree that could happen. If it did, I would simply take it to God in confession and again walk in sanctifying grace. What you are saying is that if we have faith in God, there is no way we would fall again? Or, God will not let us fall? That goes against the fact that we have free will, so I do not understand.

 

[BobRyan]

The difference being the past tense in speaking about an event when Stephen was full of grace and power while doing great things. It is different when referring to Mary who is full of grace to the present time.

Nothing is said about "Mary to the present time" in the Bible any more than "Stephen to the present time". I think we all know that.

 

[BobRyan]

You are asking if it would be a sin to disobey God? .

In the Bible - sin "is" by definition " transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

 

[Gideons300]

Sorry, you have a good point. I pretty much shut out any possibility of a valid argument from the people I was answering, anyway. And I need to understand this is a discussion and not a debate.



Absolutely, and if we die in a rough state because of our own free will, we will be stuck in that state for eternity.



You are referring to the Easter season? I wish more people understood the relevance of how Jesus is the Lamb of God.

One parallel that is beautiful to me is this: in the Old Testament, the lamb for the slaughter could not have any broken bones. Then, in the New Testament, Jesus on the cross did not have broken bones. (John 19:36 and Exodus 12).

I'm glad beyond measure that you are a changed man, I too have had my struggles, although possibly not as difficult as yours. We both changed through different means but both by responding to the grace of God.

I still say that without confession, every week for a year, I would still be the same person I was. Now, I do not suffer from the near addiction I was fostering before my, "awakening", and I no longer do those things. I would be more likely to walk around in public picking my nose and consuming the fruits.

What I don't get is this: I still could choose to do those sins again, and I think you agree that could happen. If it did, I would simply take it to God in confession and again walk in sanctifying grace. What you are saying is that if we have faith in God, there is no way we would fall again? Or, God will not let us fall? That goes against the fact that we have free will, so I do not understand.

Let me see if I can explain. As long as we are still housed in these fleshly bodies, we can sin. But once we have come into agreement with God, and by faith put on our new nature, Paul tells us that we are no longer in th flesh but in the Spirit, and that we owe the flesh nothing. In other words, we do not have to sin.

What protects us is our shield of faith. It is our trust in what Jesus truly accomplished for us with not only His death but also His resurrection. When we first stand on the truth of who we are, our faith is wavering and small. But as we continue in the faith grounded and settled and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel, that our God can and will keep us from falling, just as He promised, our faith grows.

Enventually we be one established in this truth and we are unshakable. We still can sin, but we simply have been changed so much that we do not want to and thus God keeps us totally safe. This is why we are told to count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations, because we know we will not yield to them.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

In the Bible - sin "is" by definition " transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

Absolutely! But.... which law? The written mosaic law or the law of liberty? The mosaic law says “Do and you shall live”. Obedience to written rules is the foundation that it is built upon.

But not so with the law of liberty... OUR covenant. Here it’s foundation is
“Live and you shall do”. Here an obedient heart is the blessing of the new covenant.

In these last days, we as His people are to be awakened to how deep the river of grace actually runs. We have tried.... and failed miserably.... to show Jesus to an unbelieving world that Jesus lives in us.

Yet because our example has been so poor, we have changed our tactic to try to tell them that we are the example of God’s forgiveness as we continue to live for self, sin when it calls to us loud enough, and expect the world to still run under our bushel baskets and shout excitedly ‘I want what you have!!”

The world laughs at our hypocrisy. God weeps at our lukewarmness and compromise. But soon, the wheat and tares that have grown together in what we call church will enter the valley of decision and the wheat will come to the light, th tares will fall away.

The status quo that has gripped the church for the past 1900 years is about to get blown into oblivion as the true sheep are going to awaken, light their lamps, and BE witnesses unto the ends of the earth.

And so will be fulfilled the scripture where God tells us:

“... and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord when I shall be sanctified IN YOU before their very eyes.”

Live, bones, live!

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[CleanSoul]

Nothing is said about "Mary to the present time" in the Bible any more than "Stephen to the present time". I think we all know that.

I would try to make it more clear to you. But, see post 28.

 

[CleanSoul]

In the Bible - sin "is" by definition " transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

You are attempting to answer for someone else who does not understand if it is a sin to disobey God. Again, see post 28.

 

[DeaconDean]

Sirach 44:16, and 44:19 show he was taken from the earth, and in Hebrews 11:5 it says, "BY faith Enoch was taken up, so that he should not see death... Before he was taken up, he was attested to have pleased God." (emphasis mine)

If he was a horrible sinner, would he have gone directly to heaven?

Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11 says, "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

First Maccabees 2:58, "Elijah because of great zeal for the law was taken up into heaven." (emphasis mine)

You get a complete Bible, you get a more complete picture.

Regarding Mary, if we use the traditional translation of Luke 1:28 instead of the more modern one found in your Bible, instead of, "highly favored daughter," it translates in Greek to kecharitomene, or, "full of grace", which speaks to a quality or characteristic about her.

She was kept free from sin her whole life, including original sin, by being full of sanctifying grace. In her special case, she was redeemed by the grace of Christ in the anticipation of a sinful nature. So before she went down the path most people do when are born into a sinful world, she already had a special grace preventing her from sinning, she was full of grace.

In the first place, if your going to quote from books not in the canon, that are not accepted by anybody but certain groups, I can do that also.

Lk. 1:28:

"καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν, Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ." -Lk. 1:28 (GNT)

"And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" -Lk. 1:28 (English Standard Version)

"And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”" -Lk. 1:28 (New American Standard)

"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." -Lk. 1:28 (KJV)

Now, lets analyze this passage.

Strickly speaking, the phrase "full of grace" is "κεχαριτωμένη" and is defined as:

"1) to make graceful 1a) charming, lovely, agreeable 2) to peruse with grace, compass with favour 3) to honour with blessings "

Source

Also, the word "κεχαριτωμένη" is in the passive.

If you would consult any Greek lexicon worth its salt, you would learn that Mary was "made graceful", Mary was "made agreeable". Mary was made grace, and favor. Mary was "made honorable".

Source

Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

I know you have your beliefs, but I must point out that the New Testament was not written in Latin. It is ONLY in the Latin Vulagte that the phrase "ave gratia" appears.

In fact, the Greek word "κεχαριτωμένη" is only used in only two other passages.(Jn. 1:14; Acts 6:3,5)

if we use the traditional translation of Luke 1:28 instead of the more modern one found in your Bible,

Excuse me but I use a version older than yours, the Greek.

And again, there is not one word mentioned that says Mary was granted:

she already had a special grace preventing her from sinning

So what do the other translations say about Luke 1:28? Let's find out.

1. The Nestle-Aland 26th edition, Greek New Testament Interlinear--"having gone into her he said rejoice one having been favored, the master is with you."
2. The NRSV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament--And he came to her and said, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
3. American Standard Version--"And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee."
4. English Standard Version--"And he came to her and said, Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!
5. Today's English Version--'"The angel came to her and said, “Peace be with you! The Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you!”
6. King James Version--"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
7. New American Standard Bible--"And coming in, he said to her, Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.
8. New International Version--"The angel went to her and said, Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.
9. New King James Version--"And having come in, the angel said to her, Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!"
10. Revised Standard Version--"And he came to her and said, 'Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!'
11. New Revised Standard Version--And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
12. The New Century Version--The angel came to her and said, “Greetings! The Lord has blessed you and is with you.”
13. New Living Translation--Gabriel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!'”
14. The Cambridge Paragraph Bible--And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, 'thou that art 'highly favoured, 'the Lord is with thee: 'blessed art thou among women.'
15. The Holman Christian Standard Bible--"And the angel came to her and said, “Rejoice, favored woman! The Lord is with you."
16. International Standard Version--'"The angel'' came to her and said, “'Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you!"

What does the Greek say here for "highly favored one? It is the single Greek word kexaritomena and means highly favored, make accepted, make graceful, etc. It does not mean "full of grace" which is "plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace) in the Greek.

• 5923 χαριτόω (charitoō): vb.; Str 5487; TDNT 9.372—LN 88.66 show kindness graciously give, freely give (Eph 1:6); as a passive participle, subst., “one highly favored.”1
• 5487 χαριτόω [charitoo /khar·ee·to·o/] v. From 5485; TDNT 9:372; TDNTA 1298; GK 5923; Two occurrences; AV translates as “be highly favoured” once, and “make accepted” once. 1 to make graceful. 1a charming, lovely, agreeable. 2 to peruse with grace, compass with favour. 3 to honour with blessings.2

• 1. Swanson, J., Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek New Testament, electronic ed., Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, 1997, kephale, GGK5923.

• 2. Strong, J., Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, electronic ed., Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1996, GK5487.

Bottom line is, there is not one substantiated verse(s) that state your viewpoint. Nowhere in the scriptures, those 66 books we call the "Holy Bible" does it say Mary never sinned before or after Jesus.

And unless I'm mistaken, was not the Latin Vulgate written several centuries after the Greek?

Hum...

Sorry.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

You know what?

I was "saved" in 1974. 45 years now. 45 years of Baptist life. Blessed every day of that Baptist life.

Been through seminary too!

As a deacon, an Elder, and as a preacher, have studied the scriptures nearly all my life. There is one thing I have learned above all things.

There has been One and ONLY One person to have graced the face of the earth that was born, lived, and died "sinless".

It was not Enoch.

It was not Elijah.

It was not Mary.

I also know that the requirements for the sacrificial lamb, was to be "without blemish". Since it is accepted thought that Enoch and Elijah were "sinless" why didn't God substitute one of them for His Son on the Cross?

It could be that the two witnesses in Revelation may be Enoch and Elijah, but who knows.

So I'll say it again:

"There has been One and ONLY One person to have graced the face of the earth that was born, lived, and died "sinless".

It was not Enoch.

It was not Elijah.

It was not Mary."

If any of those three (3) did, then we know for a fact that the scriptures LIE!

The person who wrote 66% of the New Testament LIED!

Perhaps we should re-write Romans 3:23 to read:

"For all except Enoch, Elijah, Mary have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Italics added for emphasis)

If the scriptures LIE, then Paul LIED. If Paul and the scriptures LIE, they are not trustworthy. If they are not trustworthy, then Christianity isn't trustworthy.

We might as well grab a copy of Moby Dick and declare it to be our word.

I also know that you'll never get me to accept Catholic teachings on this. I also know you'll never accept Baptist teachings on this neither.

So I'll just say:

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[CleanSoul]

You know what?

I was "saved" in 1974. 45 years now. 45 years of Baptist life. Blessed every day of that Baptist life.

Been through seminary too!

As a deacon, an Elder, and as a preacher, have studied the scriptures nearly all my life. There is one thing I have learned above all things.

There has been One and ONLY One person to have graced the face of the earth that was born, lived, and died "sinless".

It was not Enoch.

It was not Elijah.

It was not Mary.

I also know that the requirements for the sacrificial lamb, was to be "without blemish". Since it is accepted thought that Enoch and Elijah were "sinless" why didn't God substitute one of them for His Son on the Cross?

It could be that the two witnesses in Revelation may be Enoch and Elijah, but who knows.

So I'll say it again:

"There has been One and ONLY One person to have graced the face of the earth that was born, lived, and died "sinless".

It was not Enoch.

It was not Elijah.

It was not Mary."

If any of those three (3) did, then we know for a fact that the scriptures LIE!

The person who wrote 66% of the New Testament LIED!

Perhaps we should re-write Romans 3:23 to read:

"For all except Enoch, Elijah, Mary have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Italics added for emphasis)

If the scriptures LIE, then Paul LIED. If Paul and the scriptures LIE, they are not trustworthy. If they are not trustworthy, then Christianity isn't trustworthy.

We might as well grab a copy of Moby Dick and declare it to be our word.

I also know that you'll never get me to accept Catholic teachings on this. I also know you'll never accept Baptist teachings on this neither.

So I'll just say:

God Bless

Till all are one.

Dang. Really get ticked when someone proves you wrong, huh? Especially a Catholic?

Also, see post #28. I feel we are being disrespectful towards the OP. If you would like to PM me, that's fine.

 

[DeaconDean]

Dang. Really get ticked when someone proves you wrong, huh? Especially a Catholic?

Also, see post #28. I feel we are being disrespectful towards the OP. If you would like to PM me, that's fine.

No, you have not proven me wrong anywhere.

Those 66 books of scripture we call the "Holy Bible" says absolutely nothing you espouse.

And until you prove me wrong, FROM scripture, your still wrong. Plain and simple.

You have been proven wrong from the Greek, and the Greek came before the Latin.

So cling to your Catholic views. Makes no difference to me.

It still does not change the fact that from the dawn of man, until Jesus, and until Jesus returns. There is not one single person who has managed to, even after being saved, walk sinless.

I may want to, I may desire to, but just like Paul, we're in this body of flesh, and as long as we are, we are going to sin.

And that is a fact straight from scripture.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Guys, if you would be so kind, this has sort of deviated from the topic in the OP. It is not a debate about how others in the past may or may not have walked sinlessly. It is for those who are not walking with victory over sin who want it more than their next breath.

And the path to that victory? Abiding in Him. How do we know this? Because we are told that if we abide in Him we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. WILL NOT.

Thus, the real question is not whether we can or whether we cannot. If we can figure out how to abide in Him, God Himself will cause us to walk as overcomers. So, how are we told we abide in Him? By faith!

This is not our beginning faith that reached out to believe God sent Jesus to die for our sins. True Christians have believed that from day one and still have been overcome by sin, by self, by the world and the devil. So what is it?

It is faith, our agreeing with our God, that we..... the old us..... is dead. It is faith that likewise, we have been made new creatures, possessing new natures, and that God, now no longer with us but IN US, will actually cause us to walk in obedience.

This is why God is the potter in our sanctification, and we the clay. When we have tried to be the potter, one of two results happen. We fail miserably...OR.... we make a fair show in the flesh, and the sins we commit are “refined ones”, which leave us as the Pharisees, pretty on the outside, but dead men’s bones on the inside.

In these coming days, God is again awakening His people to the truth of who they are. These are those spoken of by John the Revelatory, who became overcomers by combining the blood of the Lamb with the words of OUR TESTIMONY that the old us is truly dead. Not dying. DEAD. Sin that has wrapped its tentacles around us for our entire lives is about to receive its death blow.

His people, wrapped up in religious efforts that can set no one free, are about to put on their brand new natures by faith and when they do, everything will change. Religion will be swallowed up by righteousness.... His in us!

Our minds will be renewed. Our victory will be real and powerful. And praise God, the love of Jesus will not only flow down on us but also through us as we finally understand what it is to be one with one another in the exact same waywe are one with Him. Glory!

Are you ready? God is. He has spoken that His eyes search out over the whole earth, seeking those on whose behalf He can shown Himself strong. Are you tired of your failures? Battling a self nature that refuses to climb down off the throne. Your deliverer is come and make no mistake, He will accomplish what He has purposed for us.... victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. Complete and utter, wonderfully glorious victory.

Blessings,

Gideon

And here again, it goes back to the question.

Can you produce for us, one person other than Jesus, that has attained that mark?

And here once again, there is this rule:

Do not teach or promote sinless perfectionism.

Link to this rule for GT.

Sorry

Like I said, I may try, I may desire it, I may want it, but the fact remains, as long as we live in the body of flesh, it will trip us up even in our best attempts. And, it, as far as this area is concerned, an unattainable mark.

Sorry

God Bless

Till all are one.